Sounds pretty accurate to me Bren. Spitfires had to be got airborne v.quickly after firing up as their engines overheated.
Your best bet is to take a look in the cdp file and check the settings there, or alternatively try a better coolant like beer

Ozzy

Oops. You're quite right Doug, I do apologise, I'm typing rubbish again! Sorry Steve

Mark

Hi Brensec,

We are a friendly bunch that post over on Avhistory and the guys that know are always only too happy to help.

I do have the B17 and can get it off the ground, usually.
As well as cowl flaps you can also play with the prop pitch which will make a lot of difference to the engine temperature. Reducing the pitch (lower %) will enable the engine to spin at higher reves which cools the radial engines plus letting more air in. Once speed increases along the runway it may be possible to increase the pitch to get max speed but I thikn most of the 1% planes give best performance with the pitch set to 80 - 90%.

As Ozzy said, once you have started the engines you need to get the wheels rolling straight away and open the cowl flaps all the way or feather the engines if you are taxiing.

The trick seems to be keeping them cool in the first place. Once they are hot you need a lot a airspeed to cool them down.

I hope this helps, and it's good to see more people flying the 1% planes. In my opinion they are much better to fly than the stock type planes.

Ozzi & Hagar,
I'm interested by your comments that the planes are hard to fly as I find all stock planes are incredibly twitchy and hard to fly as I now almost exclusively fly 1% planes.

Except, of course, for your excellent Korean campaigns Hagar, fantastic work!

Thanks for the info, Kev. Welcome to out little 'hidie hole'.

I love the 1% planes from AV. I have quite a collection. As you say, the stock planes do seem to be a bit 'touchy' on the stick. The 1%'s seem to be more gradual in their response.

Not knowing otherwise, I assume this is the way it was. it suits me anyway. It makes for a more challenging dogfight, especially when it's possible to over-stress the plane, which is impossible in the default planes.

Thank you and all the other blokes, for their hard work.

What's the story on 1% for CFS3. I haven't been to the site for a little while. is there a story about 1% planes for CFS3?
I can't play it on my PC, but I am curious for when I can. 

Yep. I read all the notes. There's nothing specific regarding settings for takeoff, other than the 'checksheet'.

I can get it off the ground if I'm on a longer strip (or overshhoot and kill a few people...... )
But it still, to my liking, and what I imagine, overheats far, far too quickly. After all these things had to start up, wait their turn and do a fair amount of taxiing before they could get up. I've seen film of about 20 B29's lined up at Tinian, all with engines running.
So it can't be right, as far as I can see.

Ok, the B17's in Britain and Europe wouldn't have had to queue as much, but still they had a reasonable wait before getting up.

Anyway, It's not the end of the world.

I know what you mean about the trim and sttings etc having to be right. I can't see that they way I can throw the Defaults around could possibly be accurate. But hey, what ever, it's all great as far as I'm concerned.

hi all,

Yep, Thunderboy is correct. And that is how the bombers could 'wait' or taxi prior to take off.

Having landed in a multiplayer game I idled on the runway for 5 mins with prop pitch set to 0% (or as close to as is possible) and the engine temp stayed at 80°C for all that time. I then took off by increasing the prop to 80%(ish) with no probs. This was from one of the stock small dirt strips. Not sure which one.

Lastly, Bresec, you should come join us on-line some time. There is no cheating amongst the 1% planes and we are all flying to have fun and be friendly.

Kev

My general rule is below 200 kts, knock down the prop 4 clicks or so, and WATCH temp.
I have a new 1% Wildcat Campaign at Sim-Outhouse with a panel CFG in it that puts the 1%Wildcat temp guage where you can plainly see it, if you like fighter missions...

Regarding variable pitch props - this is what I was taught over 40 years ago.

Fine pitch = revs. Revs = power. Power = heat.
You need full power (fine pitch) for take-off (& landing in case you need to go-around for some reason).  An engine going flat out drinks fuel like it's going out of fashion & can also cause overheating. Coarse pitch is used for economical cruise.

Prop pitch is like a gearbox on a car. Use low gear for overtaking & going uphill, high gear for cruise.

There seem to be a lot of misconceptions about variable pitch airscrews. The first Spitfires & Hurricanes used in the BoB had wooden 2 bladed, fixed pitch props. These were found inefficient & soon replaced with metal variable-pitch (2-pitch only - fine & coarse) airscrews. While improving performance they were difficult to use properly while in combat & the final improvement was the 3 bladed constant speed prop. (The difference between variable pitch & constant speed is similar to that between a manual & automatic car gearbox.) This all took place within a matter of weeks & drastically improved the performance of both aircraft. Note that prop pitch controls the revs of the engine for a given throttle setting which translates into power output. Most WWII piston engines were allowed maximum power (engine revs) for a limited time. Using emergency power for longer than recommended would risk serious overheating & maybe even engine failure.

This article gives a good explanation of the diifferent types of prop. http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wa.asp?idWebPage=3637

Note this which confirms my previous statement.
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Thanks for that tip B24. I wouldn't have touched a Reality-X CFG without some advice first. Now that I know it's ok to change simple settings such as this, I'll give it a go. 

Hagar,
I'll have to read the article you've given the link for, because now I'm totally confused.
My understanding was always that you had engine speed that was determined by the throttle, the same as a car. Then you had prop pitch which sharpened or flattened the angle of the blade. This would create more 'thrust' but also more drag, hence the engine revs would drop because of the increased drag on the blade. Sort of like changeing to a higher gear in a car.

Having seen your short explanation, I don't know if this applies now. I'll have to read up.

Thanks 

To understand this I think you need to differentiate between engine power & airspeed. I was an airframe man & never had much to do with the sharp end, although I was taught the basics on engines & props. This was also more years ago than I care to remember. The Tiger Moths & Austers I learned to fly on had fixed-pitch props so I have no "real-life" experience of using the variable pitch variety. You already know my thoughts on the realism of the M$ sims & I don't mess around with prop pitch & all that stuff. I do know that it's possible to define different types of prop in the AIR file & Aircraft.cfg.

I'm not really sure how fine & coarse pitch translate to percentages. I would assume that 100% is fully coarse. This would take bigger "bites" of air per revolution compared with fine pitch. The different types of thread on an ordinary nut & bolt are described in the same way. Going back to the car gearbox analogy, think of the difference in acceleration between flooring the GO pedal in a high or low gear. The low gear gives higher engine revs which converts to power - acceleration, not speed.

All piston engines have an optimum power setting which is the most efficient for that particular engine in a specific installation. They will run for short periods at full power but this uses most fuel & can quickly cause wear & overheating. Fixed-pitch props were always a compromise between optimum & full power. They need a fine enough pitch to give sufficient power (engine revs) for take-off while being coarse enough to give a reasonably efficient & economical cruise. This is why the variable-pitch prop was introduced. In normal circumstances the only times you need full power available are during take-off & landing.

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Going back to the original topic, we're talking about bombers. Most, if not all, WWII bombers were fitted with constant-speed props. A bomber is much the same as a transport aircraft in that economical cruising speed & range are the priorities. I assume there would be several marked pitch settings on the quadrant, take-off/landing, climb & cruise.

I'm re-reading Richard Hillary's classic biography "The Last Enemy" right now. Hillary was a Spitfire pilot, born in Australia, who was shot down & suffered terrible burns during the BoB. He wrote the book during his long convalescence. His brief reference to an incident that occurred during their early night-flying training on the Harvard jumped out & hit me - it seemed so relevant to what we're discussing. Hilllary had just passed the course after 3 solo night flights & was relaxing in the hut with his instructor.
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I don't pretend to know all the technical aspects or fully understand it myself. This is a complex subject & I'm sure there are others here more qualified than me. All I know is what I was taught. My first engineering instructor drummed it into us from an early age. "Revs = Power & don't you forget it." I never did forget, in fact it's one of the few things that remain engraved on my memory from those days. Everything I've been told or read on the subject since then confirms that he was correct. I'm sure he went into more detail but my old notebooks have long since been lost. 

At the risk of boring you here's another quote I found while researching this. It's from an article by AVM James "Johnnie" Johnson describing his first flight in a Spitfire.
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I'm sure more people realise this than you might think. I copied this from the FS2002 default Corsair checklist.

BEFORE TAKEOFF

[ ] Brakes -- SET
[ ] Canopy -- OPEN
[ ] Wings -- SPREAD

Do not run up engine past 1,500 rpm with wings folded.

[ ] Flight Controls -- FREE and CORRECT
[ ] Flight Instruments -- CHECK and SET
[ ] Primer -- LOCKED
[ ] Mixture -- RICH
[ ] Fuel Quantity -- CHECK
[ ] Fuel Selector Valve -- RECHECK main
[ ] Elevator Trim -- SET for takeoff
[ ] Rudder Trim -- SET for takeoff
[ ] Throttle -- 30 in. Hg.

[ ] Magnetos -- CHECK
[ ] Propeller -- CYCLE high rpm/
     low rpm/high rpm
[ ] Engine Instruments and Ammeter -- CHECK
[ ] Throttle -- 800-1,000 rpm
[ ] Flaps -- SET for takeoff (0-20 degrees)
[ ] Cowl Flaps -- OPEN

I must admit, it seems a little clearer, but I'm not 100% clear on the whys and hows. But then who is?

I'm just the type that doesn't accept a given 'law' or rule. I have to know why it is so (Prof. Julius Sumner Miller - if you're familiar with him.......... ). The study of Physic is simply - "Why things are as they are, and not otherwise"...........I love that.

But, thanks for the help and the explanations, Hagar. 

I can't wait to get home (at work again - public holiday here, so I got a shift at $40-00 an hour - couldn't pass it up!) to get my favourite 1% plane and see if I accelerate on the runway more quickly with 100% prop pitch or 50% pitch etc etc. I'll try a few settings and see if there is an optimum, at all, other than 100% (coarse).

And, of course, all the time I'm doing this, I will have uppermost in my mind that the Sim configs may very well not be true representations of what would happen in reality.............just for Hagar.....

I was re-reding this discussion and I agree with Hagar the game is a game and I am all for realism as long as it does not spoil the fun.

The 1% aircraft fly really well but they seem to lack one thing Power!

Just try and jump in your Wildcat and take off from the stock starting point on a carrier with a full drop tank. Crashing every time I take off is not too much fun.

What do you all think?

Hi guys,
I've been away from the forums for a bit. This is developing into a very interesting conversation.

There was a similar chat over on avhistory on this same subject of prop settings.
Hopefully this link will work
http://www.avhistory.org/scripts/MegaBBS/thread-view.asp?threadid=1095
If not search there furum for a subject line of 'Dumb question time'. It was started in August this year.

Brensec, and anyone else. I do most of my flying online and I would love to do a hop or fight most evenings UK time.
Brensec I seem to remember that you are in Sydney, Aus. Looking forward to the world cup? Perhaps we could arrange a Saturday/ Sunday morning UK time which I think should be evening for you. I did fly at what would be evening for you two weeks ago when I was off sick and there was a busy 1% game for a couple of hours so I guess there are several Aussies flying the flag.

As for the question of prop settings. I'm not very up on reading excact settings, etc. I usually rely on trial and error to get things right. I have however flown the B17 a few times since reading this post and am having no proplems having reduced the prop setting to 80 - 90% (whatever that may mean. lol) I can get off the ground and not overheat. Same for landing. However on taking off I don't drop the flaps untill I have some speed up.

As always, I hope this helps.

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Great and interesting debate 

B24Guy the default carriers are smaller than they were in real life,so if you fly 1% on an 80% carrier well sorry but SPLASH
If you grab the Nanni's Config - All Ships from here
http://web.tiscali.it/Nanni/CFS/
You will start as far back as possible and you can get the 1% fully loaded of the deck with flaps brakes and  balls to the wall power
MaV

Thanks people, for all the interest, and input.

I really think I've got it now. The main problem was, as Hagar has said, the incorrect assumption that 100% was full coarse pitch.
Probably at the same time Hagar did it, I tried what I said I was going to, and the first thing I noticed was when I put the cursor on the Pitch Control, it said "100% fine". Then the penny dropped. They must mean 100% power rather than 100% "thrust" or air movement. That's what the problem was.

I now know what the story is. Even though the pitch control lever says 100%, you are in what equates to "low gear" i.e maximum revs in the engine and less drag on the prop.
If you want to get more "air movement" for your revolutions you change to High gear, i.e coarse pitch.

P.S. With regard to getting a plane up off a carrier. the only ones I have trouble getting in the air are the Carrier bombers, Devastator and Dauntless. Even if I taxi the plane to the extreme rear of the Carrier, they will not get to over 65 mph with a 28 - 30 mph headwind (carrier speed etc). With a full tank and 500 lb bomb, it's not enough.
The Avenger can do it, JUST, but the other two, I can't get them up in the air at all.
They are the default CFS2 planes with the standard AI conversion to 'flyable'.
Does anyone else have this prob?

Kev,
Just send me an IM (brensec) and we'll arrange a time for a hop. I've been busy getting an Internet business up and running recently, so I've been offline alot, but I'm usually here at least every 3rd or 4th day.

Steve