May we never forget . . . 

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but one thing I noticed in the aftermath of that horrible day, is that everyone seemed to want to display the American Flag.

I was disappointed, however, when I realized how many people don't know proper etiquette for doing so.

There are many rules which should be followed out of respect for our country, and our flag.  Below I've outllined some of the more common errors I've seen since September 11, 2001.  These are direct quotes from The Flag Code.  (Yes, there really is one.)

Section 6(a). It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

Section 6(c).The flag should not be displayed on days when the weather is inclement, except when an all-weather flag is displayed.

Section 7(b).The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.

Section 7(L).  The flag should form a distinctive feature of the ceremony of unveiling a statue or monument, but it should never be used as the covering for the statue or monument.  (Remember Baghdad?)

The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. As used in this subsection -
1.  the term "half-staff" means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;

2.  the term "executive or military department" means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and

3.  the term "Member of Congress" means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.

Section 8(b).  The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

Section 8(d).The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

Section 8(i).The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.  (SORRY US AIRWAYS!!!)

Section 8(j).  No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.  (So many athletes with that sticker on their uniform....no good!)

So, if you read it carefully, as much as loomex's intent is noble, don't fly your flag at half-staff on September 11th, until the President himself orders it done.

Second, US Airways should REALLY change their logo.

And finally, respect your American flag and all it stands for.  Failing to comply with these rules are just as disrespectful as not displaying it at all.

God Bless America and all who defend her.

IMO, Silent Exploder, you (and everyone else) should be allowed to commemorate that day any way you choose, as long as you are taking the time to think about the day itself, and the lives that were lost.

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That may be the BEST way to honor it...

I do not plan on honoring the day by doing nothing.  I haven't decided what yet, but I know I want to do something, and I want to do it with my family.  I only meant that perhaps we should follow the phrase 'Living well is the best revenge' and not give the ba$tard$ the satisfaction of knowing they hurt us.

I don't think that'll ever happen...

hhmmm this is a difficult one let me think a minute to try and give a decent thought to this occasion.

http://www.fdnylodd.com/BloodofHeroes.html                   

This link is from a New York City Fireman who lost his entire crew on 9-11-01. This is a very dramatic and thought provoking website.   
                                                                          
           
                                                                          

I also agree that two years of service towards your country should be mandatory.  I agree with Scott, however that there would be serious problems.  This gimme Kazaa generation would not like too much having their lives interrupted for something so trivial as duty to one's country.  I would suggest thoguh, that this service need not be military.  For those who do not believe in violence of any sort for any reason, they could serve in the Peace Corp or in government service working with the homeless or drug abuse clinics.  The mandatory service is not just about paying to live in your country.  Experiences like the military or the Peace Corp help people grow, experience new things and come out the other end more mature and with a better world view.

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No offense, but why would violence have to be an issue for joining the military?

I would bet that most people in the military have other jobs besides killing.

lol@the army joke.  (Army=Ain't Ready for the Marines Yet)

On a serious note though, Andrew has an excellent point as well.

Yes, there are a lot of people in the military who have combat roles.  However, for every one of them, there is literally a team consisting of dozens and dozens of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who support them.

Cooks, firefighters, police officers, secretaries, journalists, etc.

One thing I've found is that the civilian perception of the military is very, very, very inaccurate.

Most civilians believe that the military is nothing but a war machine, willing to kill at the drop of a hat.

However, please remember that the military is actually a peaceful organization.  They are not in place to fight, but to defend us all by any means necessary.

Sometimes, that means violence.  But ask them, and 100% of them will tell you that they do not want war.

Also, I often use this example in discussing the military with civilians.

Take three guys.  A, B, and C.  A begins to beat B up very brutally.  Guy B is very weak, disabled even, and can not fight back.

You're Guy C.  Do you stand next to them and try to negotiate the situation to a peaceful end?  Or do you jump on top of A, throwing him to the sidewalk, and doing whatever you have to do to prevent it from happening again?

If you chose the second method, you're not against "violence of any sort for any reason".

I'm guy D  "c'mon  B, are you gonna let him talk to yo that way? Kick his b.................." just kidding. I believe the idea of C/O's started in Vietnam. So the idea of joining the Military, even if you ARE anti-violence(by whatever definition you choose!), is not a new one. Your also right in saying, just because you're in the military, doesn't mean you'll be out there in the trenches. I made the jab about the Army, but seriously, something like the Coast Guard is another option. They spend their waking hours SAVING lives. In the end though, even the USCG fires weapons in a combat environment! As their name implies. Bringing up my final point, if the day comes, again, that combat reaches the shores of the US. I would expect anyone, who lives under the  protection of the flag, to stand and fight with their countrymen. This the concept behind the everyone in the military idea.

I always thought it was Navy, I'll have to look into it, but it may be DOT. On that note, if they are DOT or otherwise, don't be misled! We did a static display with the CG at Opa Locka CGAS last week. From one Marine to another, their facility, personell and procedures were are par with ANY military unit. I was impressed. And as far as THIS topic is concerned, the service (if not Military) carries the same stipulations. The biggest one being-YOU CAN'T JUST QUIT!

Well sept.11th left me quite blank to be honest.

I didn't feel real sadness myself more an extreme sympathy for others who lost their loved ones.

You guys are talking about freedom as being what America is about but mandatory National Service isn't exactly the freedom of choice. I however don't believe in absolute freedom and my country, (Britain if you don't know), isn't exactly free as the primeminister, I think, still has the power to anounce a state of emergency though I could be wrong about this. In my opinion the service should not have to be part of the department of defence and the coast gaurd sounds like an excellent option. The point also about the Army only being there to defend the country is not exactly, at least I feel, accurate. Look at it this way Guy A is you and you think Guy B looks a bit dodgy, in fact you've come across this guy before (sound familiar yet?). So you lunge at this guy and pummel him into the ground..... not exactly defense. Don't get me wrong, I am in absolutely no way against a necessary war but I think that at least we should wait until the guy getting beaten up asks for, or shouts for, help or someone has strolen, (with no intent on moving off), onto an island that is owned by you

These arguments are besides the point though and I shall try to face Sept. 11th with dignity and live my life but still observe a 2 minute silence.

Thats my way of giving Mr.B Laden the finger.

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You've never seen the crew of a cutter get into a firefight with a bunch of drug smugglers.  I think these guys earn their pay, and while they may not be as glamorous or as large as the Army or Air Force, they definitely DO see combat...

Ok ok calm yourself.

but please tell me why non-military team building services that provide a sense of responsibility are counter productive?

I was reffering to all armies of many countries when I was talking about self defence. There are plenty of examples for instance to name an obvious one the Napolionic wars, don't forget until the whole Iraq thing you guys were good allies with the french in fact they played a big part in the war of independance you may not have won the battle of Yorktown ( I think thats the rightone) without em. If you examine US foreign policy in south america, I was quite surprised at this while researching for an essay I was writing you will find a few time were undue military force was used.

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Well really thats just what I assume freedom of choice should be and besides thats what the point of my belief of not having absolute freedom. I don't live in the US so I don't know about all these ammendments.

The first gulf war is a legitimate use of the army as King Fahd actually formally requested US intervention in the conflict.

The US has been thought by the rest of the world to have been used in an illegitamate way. The last time the ICJ (International Court of Jutice) judged illegitimate U.S. intervention in a civil war (that in Nicaragua), the United States government simply ignored it.

I don't think the US army is overly abusive in fact its the same as many other countries (like Britain) but it can make mistakes we just need to accept that.

OK I will no post anymore of my opinions of the subject.

Aahh fantastic someone who also likes to discuss views as long as it stays like this it will be fine. oh yeah I will share my opinion then.

I was in the army cadets for a period ( about 2 years to be precise) and what I learnt was that most of the people the real army including CO's in it had very set priorities in the order of

Fellow Troops
Family
Friends
Country
Queen.

It may be very different in the US but I agree quite strongly with these priorities.

I think it is VERY important that the US does listen to what the rest of the world thinks of it otherwise it might lose the support europe or maybe other countries in the western world and then other terrorist organizations may sureface and turn their attentions to the west they do exist in europe take, for example, ETTA (I don't know if it was spelled that way though)

DISCIPLINE IS THE INSTANT WILLINGNESS AND OBEDIENCE TO ORDERS that may be true but it may also apply to self discipline as well. The only reason I would ever put my full effort into a conflict if I thought that my family or friends were in danger.

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While that may be true I have always kept the view that the people who run the government are and always will be humans and it is in human nature (as already mentioned) to fight over sometimes insignificant differences in opinion. The motives of war are not always what they seem and power goes to some peoples heads. War is never fought unless there is something to gain whether it be freedom or money or even peace or many other less reputable causes.

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   As a marine yes, the footsoldier, or even the lower and mid level officers, need to unquestioningly obey orders(with rare intances like the My Lai massacre being the exception), for the MILITARY machine to run smoothly. As citizens, we need to be involved, and if the majority disagrees, try and act. There ARE situations, where the average citizen does not have all of the facts, and cannot make an accurate judgement as to what is the best course of action. But the "Powers that Be" are sometimes guilty of living in a "bubble", and cannot always be trusted to make the best decisions. Unfortunately, as a citizen, you usually cannot affect the outcome of individual events, only vote for the individuals that you hope will make the proper decisions. This most recent war is a prime example. Many, if not a slight majority of Americans were against the war. Personally, I think it was necessary, but they used a "sledge hammer", when they should have used a scalpal. The reason being, wars in the current environment, are fought with the TV camera, more than the rifle. Ultimately once the decision was made(hammer or scalpal), we, as US citizens, need to stand behind our government, or risk looking like fools. Something which is occuring now, due to the internal conflict amongst our own political parties. The "bad guys" know this and are banking on it.

Though the debate about the military is a good, intelligent one, that is not what this post was intended to be. The intent was to discuss what you all are doing to remember or how you are paying  tribute to the victims and families of the attacks.

I am sorry if it sounds like I am being an a$$  about this, but to me, knowing that I watched thousands of people die in an instant kind of hits me hard.

Chris

I can appreciate that, and as seems to be the case more often than not, we started talking about relativity theory and ended up talking about tuna fish sandwiches! (figuratively speaking of course) But where praying or donating or crying may be one way to show respect. Talking about what we have done since and why, and the importance of Patriotism, are also very relevant and important.

Some sort of weird psychic thing going on, or perhaps we just know what happens round here...

Will

Further to Hype's earlier flag ettiquette.

I haven't read the whole thread but I did go through his post and I don't think this is included.
It's one I've seen constantly broken or ignored, every time a flag is handled by someone other than a trained soldier or someone 'specially versed'.

I don't know if it is so for the US Flag, but it is for the Australian Flag.

"At no time should the Flag touch the ground"

This is usually why 2 men are required for the raising and lowering of the flag in the morning and evening. It's very difficult to do with a full size (or even half size) flag without having it drag all over the ground.

It's always some poor school kid or Boy Scout that gets lumbered with doing a job which should be done by two men. 

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How so? Do you mean draped over a grave or something similar?  ???

If so, I'd say that's definitely an acceptable exception. Of course what really gets me is when I see it being dragged thru the dirt because the idiot with it, can't fold it! 

Oh I see. Sorry. I didn't realise that they actually 'touched' the ground.

I do have Military experience, but it was................somewhat, informal, to a degree. So the finer aspects of such a thing are a little lost on me. There were no flags when I would have seen that sort of thing.