Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
F1 experts (Read 245 times)
Sep 4th, 2003 at 2:35pm

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
ok heres one for all you F1 buffs.
i recently went back to playing F1 2002 on GameCube and they have a challenge mode on there, on happens to be negate a series of corners on worn tires, problem is, the game seems to make driving on worn tires impossible, like driving on ice if you try to break its impossible to corner, and when you accelerate it sends you into a spin, meaning passing the challenge with a gold rating is almost impossible,
thing being i have always thought worn tires give you better grip and faster speeds as more of the tire is in contact with the road, thus the reason they made the grooved tires a rule.
thanks for any info on this.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Sep 4th, 2003 at 2:45pm

Donnie111   Offline
Colonel
Strange bird from the
Ukraine
Netherlands

Gender: male
Posts: 304
*****
 
I dont know what the difference is, but slicks are made to drive without profile. They must be constructed differently. And tires wont work better if they are worn, but theyll work better if they are warmed up.

Donovan
 

The Ring&&The Place To Be!!!!!
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Sep 4th, 2003 at 2:48pm

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
sorry i forgot to include i am on about slick tires.Smiley
howdy donovan, the problem is with slicks they become illegal after they have worn beyond a certain point because they do start to help with speed, but i am not sure about grip
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Sep 4th, 2003 at 3:06pm

Travis   Offline
Colonel
Cannot find REALITY.SYS.
Universe halted.
Dripping Springs, TX

Gender: male
Posts: 4515
*****
 
Grip is a function of the area that is in contact with the road.  Slicks have a larger area of surface in contact with the ground, as opposed to the grooved tires.  This distributes the weight over a larger surface area than the grooves allow.  Less surface area=more grip.

You can test this (sort of) by placing your hand flat on a table.  Now put all your weight on the table using only your hand.  No problem, right?  Now put just your fingertips on the table, and do this.  The smaller surface area makes it harder for your body structure to support the weight on top the fingers, even though it is exactly the same as it was with your palm down.  The pressure under each finger is many times that which was exerted on your palm.  This is an example of surface area versus grip.  Your palm is the racing slick tire, and your fingers are the grooved tire.  More pressure=greater traction, yes?

Physics lesson over.  Sorry for the lecture. Roll Eyes

And no, I don't know squat about Formula 1, I just know a lot about physics.
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Sep 4th, 2003 at 3:31pm

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
Craig slick tyres are banned in F1, and have been for about 2 years Roll Eyes
However the answer to your question is this. Worn tyres will loose grip gradually, and the effects you are getting are accurate. Its to do with the way the tyres are made in layers, and heat affects the rubber of the layer below as the new layer is added, or with injection mould tyres, the speed of cooling from inner to outer layer.
Now a warm tyre will grip better than a cold one (which is why all the cars have tyre warmers). They then do the warm-up lap to scrub off any bits of excess from the mould and to get the tyres up to temperature before the start.
All F1 tyres are X-rayed for imperfections, but as I said, the layer thing has yet to be cracked.... Once someone invents a cold-casting process (which physics says is impossible, but I never believe anything a physicist tells me, not even one of my oldest friends who is a high-energy nuclear physicist), then the problem will disappear and the tyre will be consistent throughout its use.
And I do know a lot about tyres as I spent a while working for Michelin in Watford (their head office in the UK), and spent a lot of time with the motorbike boss, and blagging trips to race tracks as part of the team (okay so I had to do a lot of menial physical labour, but I was in the pits)!!!

Ozzy

Ps. I never got the British GP Angry All the managers would work that weekend Cry
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Sep 4th, 2003 at 3:37pm

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
thanks guys. just checking. when i say slicks i mean in the terms of what they use now. not pure slicks.
although if i had my way formula1 cars would still be as they were when damon hill was in his gold and green williams, mclaren were white and red, and michael schumacher was still considered green:) those were in my opinion the best times for F1. i can still remember the donnington race when it was the european GP for one year, there were more pit stops in those few laps than ever before, good old british weather. and my fav memory still sticks out, nigel mansell and ayrton senna, brazil might have been 89-90 time, coming down the main straight side by side top speed in what seemed to be a monsoon, and with senna being the true rain master he came out of that encounter the winner with an amazing last second braking into the first corner.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Sep 4th, 2003 at 9:56pm

Travis   Offline
Colonel
Cannot find REALITY.SYS.
Universe halted.
Dripping Springs, TX

Gender: male
Posts: 4515
*****
 
Welll, oooohhhh!  Ozzy seems to have it out for me!  Although he does seem to know what he is talking about.  The reason I threw in my post was that I learned about this exact problem in high school physics, albeit on regular cars.  My teacher was explaining why it is a good idea to buy new tires, from a physics point of view.

But I have forgotten why a cold tire doesn't grip like a warm one.  What is the reaction there, ozzy?
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Sep 5th, 2003 at 3:20am

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
i think it has somthing with the tire being softer, thats also why they have two compounds, in hard and soft, they use the hard tires for fast tracks that require fewer pit stops, and soft tires on tracks that have tighter corners that you need to carry the speed through, in the long run they arnt as fast but on circuits such as hungry and belguim they work out to be faster. I believe, it has been a while since they explained it on tv
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Sep 5th, 2003 at 3:48am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
Absolutely right Craig Wink
Hey Ender, its nothing personal. I just hated physics at school, my teacher was a psycho (he had to leave after beating a girl unconcious using a metal lab stool!).

Ozzy Smiley
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Sep 5th, 2003 at 3:54am

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
hey we had one of those as a music teacher. he eventually lost it and threw himself out the music room window, which happend to be on the second floor. just my luck i had left the school 2 weeks before, and only heard about it on the news,they really should do some better checks on who they hire. Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Sep 5th, 2003 at 4:06am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
Tell me about it. I'm in my 3rd year at the same school Grin The hiring procedures are a joke, the interview was like;
"What special skills do you have?"
"I can jump out of an aeroplane and kill people with a machine gun"
"Do you like children?"
"No!"
"Welcome on board" Grin
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Sep 5th, 2003 at 4:56am

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
LOL
you forgot marmalading peoples house from your trusty spitfire;) or would that put you in the maybe column:)?
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Sep 5th, 2003 at 8:56am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
I didn't mention the marmalade as I didn't want to get lumbered with domestic science too Grin
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print