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how do you land a tail wheel? (Read 747 times)
Aug 18
th
, 2003 at 6:07pm
bx909
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How do you land a tail wheel aircraft?
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Reply #1 -
Aug 18
th
, 2003 at 6:12pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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It depends on the aircraft. The proper way is to do a 3-pointer. The idea is to stall the aircraft just above the ground & touch down on all 3 wheels at the same time. This takes practice but it's possible in the sims. Larger taildraggers like the DC-3 are usually wheeled on & the tail allowed to settle as it slows down. Be careful not to touch the brakes or you will nose over.
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Reply #2 -
Aug 18
th
, 2003 at 6:17pm
Smoke2much
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Quote:
How do you land a tail wheel aircraft?
Carefully.
It's as Hagar says really. Practice is vital, I have been flying flight Sims for a good few years but today at 10.15 ish I landed my Corsair, default 2002, hit the brakes and died an ignoble, fiery death.....
There are some screenshots of it on the "round the US race" thread on the fs2002 forum. If you land with the main gear first you tend to bounce which unless you are very careful can develop into "ballooning" where the bounce develops until you stall at about 50 feet above the runway, and then hit it nose first.
Good luck.
Will
Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&
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Reply #3 -
Aug 18
th
, 2003 at 6:20pm
Hagar
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I just found this on Google.
http://www.taildraggers.com/old/documentation/landing.asp
It explains it very well.
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Reply #4 -
Aug 18
th
, 2003 at 6:29pm
X
Ex Member
BX;
Speed is the trick!!
Land just above stall and get the flaps back up!!
This gets rid of the lift so you can ease back on
the stick and slow it down without brakes!!
Line up to the runway is important, unlike
a tri' it's hard to get it straight once you are
on the ground!!
Do it over and over and over!!!!
Brad
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Reply #5 -
Aug 19
th
, 2003 at 3:11am
ozzy72
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I learnt to fly on tail draggers, and all I can say is PRACTICE!
Keep the aircraft just above stalling, and practice slapping the main wheels down without bouncing.
Then move on to perfecting the 3 pointer. A good tip is to watch the replays of your landing so you can see how well it goes
Ozzy
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Reply #6 -
Aug 19
th
, 2003 at 4:28am
Ivan
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If you have a Lancaster, it won't roll over it's props as soon as a piper Cub does when braking hard
with the DC-3, and with the other ones with flaps, i usually raise the flaps just before touchdown, you loose enough lift to settle whitout bumps
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Reply #7 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 5:40am
ozzy72
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Brensec, better to live to see the court martial than eat a deckplate sandwich
Ozzy
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Reply #8 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 6:02am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Too right!
Hey Oz - Re that signature photo - are they pulling that Spit out or pushing it in!...........
P.S. Is that the tail-hook I see just under the fuselage 'roundel'.
If it is, I didn't realise that's where they were on a Spit!
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Reply #9 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 6:13am
ozzy72
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Yeah Bren, they are trying to get it back onto the deck. Its a Seafire III (basically a MkV modified for carrier work a hook added, and the airframe strengthened). With its narrow U/C it wasn't the best for naval use, but its effectiveness in the fleet defence role cannot be denied, however I wouldn't have wanted to try and ditch one! That Merlin pulled them straight to the bottom, normally with the pilot still strapped in
Mark
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Reply #10 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 9:00am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Straight to the bottom? - (Unless you were Ben Affleck in 'Pearl Harbour'!!..........
).
Is that shot taken during he War??
If it is, I wouldn't have thought they would bother trying to salvage a ditched plane (it looks pretty banged up).
After all, from late 1940 onward (well before the MkIV) there certainly was no shortage of Spits.
I wonder why they are pulling it out. I felt sure they were 'scuttling" it because of the damage.
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Reply #11 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 9:20am
ozzy72
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The modified Seafire III airframes were in v.short supply at first. So they tried to save them. Not sure what happened to the pilot. Probably given some concrete wellies and encouraged to go for a swim
If you look closely you can see where the cable is, obviously it err didn't arrest too well
Mark
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Reply #12 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 9:23am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Looks like the pilot might be the one walking towards the left, immediately to the left of the 'officer' in the dark unifom, with his back to us (walking towards the plane0.
the one I mean, seems to still have a life vest on.
(His left leg is directly above the 'e' in bugger)
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Reply #13 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 9:50am
ozzy72
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I do believe you are right Steve. Well spotted mate, I missed that.
Mark
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #14 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 1:16pm
Hagar
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Quote:
Is that shot taken during he War??
If it is, I wouldn't have thought they would bother trying to salvage a ditched plane (it looks pretty banged up).
After all, from late 1940 onward (well before the MkIV) there certainly was no shortage of Spits.
I wonder why they are pulling it out. I felt sure they were 'scuttling" it because of the damage.
It would be interesting to know the story behind that photo. It's difficult to tell but from the position of the arrester cable the shot was taken looking over the stern. I've seen a lot of similar shots & always assumed that's where it ended up on the deck after a botched landing. It didn't go in the drink at all. If so, the pilot was a very lucky man.
PS. Brensec. If you're correct about the guy in the photo being the pilot I would think they were trying to save him rather than the aircraft. Assuming the carrier is on active duty they could use the aircraft for spares if it could not be salvaged. Aircraft & spares are hard to come by when you're far away from home.
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Reply #15 -
Aug 20
th
, 2003 at 1:55pm
ozzy72
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Like I said Doug it was probably the airframe they were trying to save. Its lost the control surfaces on the starboard wing, and I'd guess the U/C is FUBAR, but the main part of the plane would be repairable from the stores.
To the best of my knowledge this was taken during the War in the Med. and it was an early Seafire III (hence the rescue exercise). The wings are not the folding type so this would seem to be accurate with what little I've found out. I'm trying to trace the serial (from the site I found the shot at) for the full story. I'll keep you posted
Mark
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Reply #16 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 1:26am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA
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Quote:
I do believe you are right Steve. Well spotted mate, I missed that.
Mark
I think I can even make out a leather 'skullcap' too (or whatever they called them)................
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Reply #17 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 2:42am
ozzy72
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Pity its not in colour, then you could identify him by his brown trousers
Mark
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Reply #18 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 5:02am
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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I reckon it's either a very relieved pilot or a very disconcerted "Bats" the DLCO.
Thought you might like this little poem I found.
Quote:
And a mysterious person by the name of Harry keeps cropping into the conversation. If you've "had it", it's Hadders; if you're going to bash the spine, or "flake out", it's Harry Flakers and so on. The men of the Fleet Air Arm have their songs, too. One night in the Wardroom I was introduced to some of them, one of the lyrics went -
They say in the Air Force the landing's okay
If the pilot can step out and still walk away;
But in the fleet Air Arm the prospect is grim
If the landing is poor and the pilot can't swim;
When the batsman gives lower, I always go higher
Straight into the barrier and prang a Seafire;
The boys up in goofers all think that I'm green
But I get a commission from Supermarine.
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Reply #19 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 5:19am
ozzy72
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Great poem there Hagar
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #20 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 10:37am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA
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I just noticed the Title of this topic!
"How do you land a tail wheel?"
I suppose it's much easier if it's attached to a plane.......
(Maybe 'Tail dragger' would be more apt).
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Reply #21 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 1:30pm
southerndandy
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Watch Nancy Lynn on discovery wings, she never screws up(according to her) lol
Jimi Hendrix for president
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Reply #22 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 1:50pm
Rifleman
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overgrown models ! "
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I can't believe how similar Brensec and me are in thought.....his reply almost exactly matches the one which has been in my head since the beginning........
My answer now to the question, is one I learned from a very good friend......when you get down to 1-2 feet above the runway, with the power set to something less than that which is required for level flight.....try not to let it land (keep the plane at the height it is, by flaring) and it will settle softly......so when you want to land, try not to let it ! Alex told me and I never forgot, and when I do it nicely, I see him smiling at me, even though he departed a few yrs ago.......... 8)
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Reply #23 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 2:08pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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Quote:
My answer now to the question, is one I learned from a very good friend......when you get down to 1-2 feet above the runway, with the power set to something less than that which is required for level flight.....try not to let it land (keep the plane at the height it is, by flaring) and it will settle softly......so when you want to land, try not to let it ! Alex told me and I never forgot, and when I do it nicely, I see him smiling at me, even though he departed a few yrs ago.......... 8)
Exactly what I was taught. My instructor was the legendary Cecil Pashley who was also my employer.
http://shoreham.adur.org.uk/images/storyofshoreham/storyshoreham_0135.htm
He was the most experienced flying instructor in the world at the time. Possibly that record still stands today. Learned to fly in 1908 & instructed RFC/RNAS/RAF fighter pilots through 2 world wars. He was forcibly retired from instructing at the age of 73 (or was it in 1973? - can't remember) although he passed the medical with flying colours. They used to say if you were "Pash taught" you could fly anything.
I remember what he taught me as if it were yesterday. When landing a taildragger - point it directly into wind & try to keep it in the air as long as possible. Hold off, hold, hold off, hold off, down. Takes practice but it's great when it comes off.
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Reply #24 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 5:46pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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I don't know whether Rifle is referring to the answer I gave regarding the actual landing of the plane, or the smart comment about landing 'just a wheel' on it's own.
I any case, I think what I was trying to get across in my post regarding the way I do it in Sim, is pretty much what Rifle and Hagar have just said. Although I described it as 'keeping it off the ground at just above stall speed and cutting power to let the plane settle to the ground while still keeping the nose in the slightly up position'.
At least that's what I reckon I said, anyway.................lol
I almost always get a stall warning just before I touch down.
However, don't do what I keep doing with 'tricycle wheel' planes.
I always let the nose hit too hard and break the front wheel, or the tail hits the ground and the plane 'jack knifes'and I flip arse over head (it sounds hard to do, but I can do it almost on request)......lol
I think it's because I used CFS2 (without any addons) for many months before I got FS2000, so all I had in the 'tricycle' range was the P38, which I almost never flew because I don't like the way it handles and it didn't land on carriers (until I found out how to fit a 'tail hook')
Bit long winded, wasn't it!
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Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 6:07pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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Quote:
Bit long winded, wasn't it!
No more than we would expect from you Brensec. Never use one word when a dozen will do. LOL
Quote:
However, don't do what I keep doing with 'tricycle wheel' planes.
I always let the nose hit too hard and break the front wheel, or the tail hits the ground and the plane 'jack knifes'and I flip arse over head (it sounds hard to do, but I can do it almost on request)......lol
I think it's because I used CFS2 (without any addons) for many months before I got FS2000, so all I had in the 'tricycle' range was the P38, which I almost never flew because I don't like the way it handles and it didn't land on carriers (until I found out how to fit a 'tail hook')
The little plane in my sig pic is a good representaion of landing with a nosewheel type. My old boss hated the very idea when the tricycle gear Cessnas & Pipers first became popular & said it wasn't proper flying at all.
Quote:
I almost always get a stall warning just before I touch down.
He made me disconnect the stall warning horn on our Beagle Terrier (taildragger). They weren't fitted to our Tiger Moths. Said he couldn't teach pupils to land properly with that darned thing going off & startling them at the inappropriate moment.
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Reply #26 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 6:16pm
Rifleman
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Bren, first part was being a smartass.........second part is on the level........... 8)
I missed this addition to the first part .... "
"
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Reply #27 -
Aug 21
st
, 2003 at 11:27pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA
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Quote:
I find it the handiest way to hit a carrier (Either CFS2 or Arrcab in FS2002). The LSO is usually having apoplexy and the CAG is already in the process of drawing up the Court Marshal papers, but it works for me.
This is a tad off topic but kind of what we were talking about for a while. Anyway.................
I have the 'Operation Dragoon' and also an 'Ark Royal' add on campaign in CFS1.
I cannot, for the life of me, get any plane (including the ones supplied that have a 'tail hook' arrangement that you have to turn on) to catch the cables. In 12 months, I've never had one success.
In the 'Dragoon' one, the F6F has a 'spoiler' which, if you hit it, is more effective than three sets of brakes. That's what I use to land on a carrier, just hit the 'D' button on the deck and it stops within 20 or 30 feet.
Has anyone experienced this?
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Reply #28 -
Aug 24
th
, 2003 at 5:35pm
bx909
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thank you for your replies
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