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how do you land a tail wheel? (Read 747 times)
Aug 18th, 2003 at 6:07pm

bx909   Offline
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How do you land a tail wheel aircraft?
 
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Reply #1 - Aug 18th, 2003 at 6:12pm

Hagar   Offline
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It depends on the aircraft. The proper way is to do a 3-pointer. The idea is to stall the aircraft just above the ground & touch down on all 3 wheels at the same time. This takes practice but it's possible in the sims. Larger taildraggers like the DC-3 are usually wheeled on & the tail allowed to settle as it slows down. Be careful not to touch the brakes or you will nose over.
 

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Reply #2 - Aug 18th, 2003 at 6:17pm

Smoke2much   Offline
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Quote:
How do you land a tail wheel aircraft?


Carefully.

It's as Hagar says really.  Practice is vital, I have been flying flight Sims for a good few years but today at 10.15 ish I landed my Corsair, default 2002, hit the brakes and died an ignoble, fiery death.....

There are some screenshots of it on the "round the US race" thread on the fs2002 forum.  If you land with the main gear first you tend to bounce which unless you are very careful can develop into "ballooning" where the bounce develops until you stall at about 50 feet above the runway, and then hit it nose first.

Good luck.

Will
 

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Reply #3 - Aug 18th, 2003 at 6:20pm

Hagar   Offline
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I just found this on Google. http://www.taildraggers.com/old/documentation/landing.asp
It explains it very well.  Wink
 

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Reply #4 - Aug 18th, 2003 at 6:29pm
X   Ex Member

 
BX;

Speed is the trick!!
Land just above stall and get the flaps back up!!
This gets rid of the lift so you can ease back on
the stick and slow it down without brakes!!
Line up to the runway is important, unlike
a tri' it's hard to get it straight once you are
on the ground!!
Do it over and over and over!!!!

Brad
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 19th, 2003 at 3:11am

ozzy72   Offline
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I learnt to fly on tail draggers, and all I can say is PRACTICE!
Keep the aircraft just above stalling, and practice slapping the main wheels down without bouncing.
Then move on to perfecting the 3 pointer. A good tip is to watch the replays of your landing so you can see how well it goes Wink

Ozzy
 

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Reply #6 - Aug 19th, 2003 at 4:28am

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If you have a Lancaster, it won't roll over it's props as soon as a piper Cub does when braking hard

with the DC-3, and with the other ones with flaps, i usually raise the flaps just before touchdown, you loose enough lift to settle whitout bumps
 

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Reply #7 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 5:40am

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Brensec, better to live to see the court martial than eat a deckplate sandwich Wink

Ozzy Grin
 

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Reply #8 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 6:02am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Too right!   Grin Grin Wink

Hey Oz - Re that signature photo - are they pulling that Spit out or pushing it in!........... Wink

P.S. Is that the tail-hook I see just under the fuselage 'roundel'.
If it is, I didn't realise that's where they were on a Spit!  Grin
 

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Reply #9 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 6:13am

ozzy72   Offline
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Yeah Bren, they are trying to get it back onto the deck. Its a Seafire III (basically a MkV modified for carrier work a hook added, and the airframe strengthened). With its narrow U/C it wasn't the best for naval use, but its effectiveness in the fleet defence role cannot be denied, however I wouldn't have wanted to try and ditch one! That Merlin pulled them straight to the bottom, normally with the pilot still strapped in Sad

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Reply #10 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 9:00am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Straight to the bottom? - (Unless you were Ben Affleck in 'Pearl Harbour'!!.......... Grin).

Is that shot taken during he War??

If it is, I wouldn't have thought they would bother trying to salvage a ditched plane (it looks pretty banged up).
After all, from late 1940 onward (well before the MkIV) there certainly was no shortage of Spits.

I wonder why they are pulling it out. I felt sure they were 'scuttling" it because of the damage.   Grin Grin Wink
 

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Reply #11 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 9:20am

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The modified Seafire III airframes were in v.short supply at first. So they tried to save them. Not sure what happened to the pilot. Probably given some concrete wellies and encouraged to go for a swim Roll Eyes
If you look closely you can see where the cable is, obviously it err didn't arrest too well Roll Eyes Tongue

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Reply #12 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 9:23am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Looks like the pilot might be the one walking towards the left, immediately to the left of the 'officer' in the dark unifom, with his back to us (walking towards the plane0.
the one I mean, seems to still have a life vest on.  Grin Wink

(His left leg is directly above the 'e' in bugger)
 

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Reply #13 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 9:50am

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I do believe you are right Steve. Well spotted mate, I missed that.

Mark Wink
 

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Reply #14 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 1:16pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Is that shot taken during he War??

If it is, I wouldn't have thought they would bother trying to salvage a ditched plane (it looks pretty banged up).
After all, from late 1940 onward (well before the MkIV) there certainly was no shortage of Spits.

I wonder why they are pulling it out. I felt sure they were 'scuttling" it because of the damage.   Grin Grin Wink

It would be interesting to know the story behind that photo. It's difficult to tell but from the position of the arrester cable the shot was taken looking over the stern. I've seen a lot of similar shots & always assumed that's where it ended up on the deck after a botched landing. It didn't go in the drink at all. If so, the pilot was a very lucky man. Roll Eyes

PS. Brensec. If you're correct about the guy in the photo being the pilot I would think they were trying to save him rather than the aircraft. Assuming the carrier is on active duty they could use the aircraft for spares if it could not be salvaged. Aircraft & spares are hard to come by when you're far away from home.
 

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Reply #15 - Aug 20th, 2003 at 1:55pm

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Like I said Doug it was probably the airframe they were trying to save. Its lost the control surfaces on the starboard wing, and I'd guess the U/C is FUBAR, but the main part of the plane would be repairable from the stores.
To the best of my knowledge this was taken during the War in the Med. and it was an early Seafire III (hence the rescue exercise). The wings are not the folding type so this would seem to be accurate with what little I've found out. I'm trying to trace the serial (from the site I found the shot at) for the full story. I'll keep you posted Wink

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Reply #16 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 1:26am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
I do believe you are right Steve. Well spotted mate, I missed that.

Mark Wink


I think I can even make out a leather 'skullcap' too (or whatever they called them)................ Grin Grin Wink
 

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Reply #17 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 2:42am

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Pity its not in colour, then you could identify him by his brown trousers Grin

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Reply #18 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 5:02am

Hagar   Offline
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I reckon it's either a very relieved pilot or a very disconcerted "Bats" the DLCO.  Roll Eyes

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Thought you might like this little poem I found.  Wink

Quote:
And a mysterious person by the name of Harry keeps cropping into the conversation. If you've "had it", it's Hadders; if you're going to bash the spine, or "flake out", it's Harry Flakers and so on.  The men of the Fleet Air Arm have their songs, too.  One night in the Wardroom I was introduced to some of them, one of the lyrics went  -

They say in the Air Force the landing's okay

If the pilot can step out and still walk away;

But in the fleet Air Arm the prospect is grim

If the landing is poor and the pilot can't swim;

When the batsman gives lower, I always go higher

Straight into the barrier and prang a Seafire;

The boys up in goofers all think that I'm green

But I get a commission from Supermarine.
 

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Reply #19 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 5:19am

ozzy72   Offline
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Great poem there Hagar Grin
 

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Reply #20 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 10:37am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I just noticed the Title of this topic!

"How do you land a tail wheel?"

I suppose it's much easier if it's attached to a plane....... Grin Grin Grin

(Maybe 'Tail dragger' would be more apt).   Grin Wink
 

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Reply #21 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 1:30pm

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Watch Nancy Lynn on discovery wings, she never screws up(according to her) lol Wink
 

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Reply #22 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 1:50pm

Rifleman   Offline
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I can't believe how similar Brensec and me are in thought.....his reply almost exactly matches the one which has been in my head since the beginning........


My answer now to the question, is one I learned from a very good friend......when you get down to 1-2 feet above the runway, with the power set to something less than that which is required for level flight.....try not to let it land (keep the plane at the height it is, by flaring) and it will settle softly......so when you want to land, try not to let it !  Alex told me and I never forgot, and when I do it nicely, I see him smiling at me, even though he departed a few yrs ago.......... 8)
 

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Reply #23 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 2:08pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
My answer now to the question, is one I learned from a very good friend......when you get down to 1-2 feet above the runway, with the power set to something less than that which is required for level flight.....try not to let it land (keep the plane at the height it is, by flaring) and it will settle softly......so when you want to land, try not to let it !  Alex told me and I never forgot, and when I do it nicely, I see him smiling at me, even though he departed a few yrs ago.......... 8)

Exactly what I was taught. My instructor was the legendary Cecil Pashley who was also my employer. http://shoreham.adur.org.uk/images/storyofshoreham/storyshoreham_0135.htm
He was the most experienced flying instructor in the world at the time. Possibly that record still stands today. Learned to fly in 1908 & instructed RFC/RNAS/RAF fighter pilots through 2 world wars. He was forcibly retired from instructing at the age of 73 (or was it in 1973? - can't remember) although he passed the medical with flying colours. They used to say if you were "Pash taught" you could fly anything.

I remember what he taught me as if it were yesterday. When landing a taildragger - point it directly into wind & try to keep it in the air as long as possible. Hold off, hold, hold off, hold off, down. Takes practice but it's great when it comes off. Wink
 

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Reply #24 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 5:46pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I don't know whether Rifle is referring to the answer I gave regarding the actual landing of the plane, or the smart comment about landing 'just a wheel' on it's own.

I any case, I think what I was trying to get across in my post regarding the way I do it in Sim, is pretty much what Rifle and Hagar have just said. Although I described it as 'keeping it off the ground at just above stall speed and cutting power to let the plane settle to the ground while still keeping the nose in the slightly up position'.

At least that's what I reckon I said, anyway.................lol  Grin Grin Grin Wink

I almost always get a stall warning just before I touch down.  Wink

However, don't do what I keep doing with 'tricycle wheel' planes.
I always let the nose hit too hard and break the front wheel, or the tail hits the ground and the plane 'jack knifes'and I flip arse over head (it sounds hard to do, but I can do it almost on request)......lol Grin
I think it's because I used CFS2 (without any addons) for many months before I got FS2000, so all I had in the 'tricycle' range was the P38, which I almost never flew because I don't like the way it handles and it didn't land on carriers (until I found out how to fit a 'tail hook')

Bit long winded, wasn't it!  Wink
 

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Reply #25 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 6:07pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Bit long winded, wasn't it!  Wink

No more than we would expect from you Brensec. Never use one word when a dozen will do. LOL  Tongue

Quote:
However, don't do what I keep doing with 'tricycle wheel' planes.
I always let the nose hit too hard and break the front wheel, or the tail hits the ground and the plane 'jack knifes'and I flip arse over head (it sounds hard to do, but I can do it almost on request)......lol Grin
I think it's because I used CFS2 (without any addons) for many months before I got FS2000, so all I had in the 'tricycle' range was the P38, which I almost never flew because I don't like the way it handles and it didn't land on carriers (until I found out how to fit a 'tail hook')

The little plane in my sig pic is a good representaion of landing with a nosewheel type. My old boss hated the very idea when the tricycle gear Cessnas & Pipers first became popular & said it wasn't proper flying at all. Wink

Quote:
I almost always get a stall warning just before I touch down.   

He made me disconnect the stall warning horn on our Beagle Terrier (taildragger). They weren't fitted to our Tiger Moths. Said he couldn't teach pupils to land properly with that darned thing going off & startling them at the inappropriate moment. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #26 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 6:16pm

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Bren,  first part was being a smartass.........second part is on the level........... 8)

I missed this addition to the first part .... " Roll Eyes "
 

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Reply #27 - Aug 21st, 2003 at 11:27pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
I find it the handiest way to hit a carrier (Either CFS2 or Arrcab in FS2002). The LSO is usually having apoplexy and the CAG is already in the process of drawing up the Court Marshal papers, but it works for me.      


This is a tad off topic but kind of what we were talking about for a while. Anyway.................

I have the 'Operation Dragoon' and also an 'Ark Royal' add on campaign in CFS1.
I cannot, for the life of me, get any plane (including the ones supplied that have a 'tail hook' arrangement that you have to turn on) to catch the cables. In 12 months, I've never had one success.
In the 'Dragoon' one, the F6F has a 'spoiler' which, if you hit it, is more effective than three sets of brakes. That's what I use to land on a carrier, just hit the 'D' button on the deck and it stops within 20 or 30 feet.

Has anyone experienced this?    Grin Grin Grin Grin Wink
 

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Reply #28 - Aug 24th, 2003 at 5:35pm

bx909   Offline
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thank you for your replies
 
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