ok i wont post the actual rant until one of the Mods has said its ok to, i promise it wont be to political or at least nothing that could be considered offensive to anyones government. but the reason i am waiting for approval is it may be a little strong.
cheers.
Craig

I feel the danger is offending someone and they
not reply, It would shed a bad light! We would
never know!!

I too have a interest in these things!!

Brad

The danger is indeed existant. The biggest problem is someone saying something, meaning no  harm, and another person will understand the statement wrong, and become upset by the comment. Pretty simple really.

Its just best if we keep politics out of an international group.

Quote:

Because people get upset over something and make statements that they don't think through-it happens to all of us.  Then, it justs gets worse from there.

I highly doubt that Pete will allow this because of past problems. We've already lost a member this week due to a misunderstanding. Politics gets people angry or scares people off. What causes the flame wars is people who should not be involved, get invlolved. I can make fun of Canada all I want, which I do.   I don't mind if other people make fun of Canada too but other Canadians here may feel offended. I'm probably the least politically correct person I know but I still know when to draw the line, unfortunately a lot of people do not. Just remember these things. Here's Orenda's rules for forum etiquet

1. You can criticise places you have never been too all you want, jut remember that nobody eles wants to hear that. Don't post things like that.

2. Remember that too many people get involved in things they shouldn't. Even if you plan to discus this with members of your own nation, remember that people who are not invited will feel the need to comment. This ties in with rule #1.

3. I don't care if your a Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Commie, etc. Remember that nobody eles does either so don't talk about your political alliances.

4. If you want to talk politics with others with similar opinions, join a political party. Remember that this is a international community.

This stuff may seem simple and common sense but a surprising amount of people neglect to keep these in mind.

I still stand by my view that those who CAN discuss those things maturely should be able to...just another example of morons ruining things for the rest of the crowd...

Oh well...

I know it's not my decision, never claimed otherwise.  Just stating my opinion. 

okie dokie here goes.
Ok so we all know now the TSA are the security force for the US airports, they have created some good rules, enforced cockpit doors, and a few other hidden things.
but now for the rant.
Ok first off, the amount of workers they have, i was at memphis a while back and at the security gate they had, 2 machines open, which when i was there before 9/11 had 4 open, with only the required workers. post 9/11 they had a TSA worker, to tell you to take your laptop out of the case, they had a worker there to hand out plastic tubs for your belongings that are metal, they had a person checking the x-ray machine, two people doing the metal detector another person to take the plastic case, a person to direct you, and 3 people doing any extra pat down searches. and this is per security lane, not for the entire area. now why couldnt the person telling you to take the laptop out of its case also giving directions and handing out the plastic tubs. there two workers cut down there, next at the pat down stage, the speed which lines move you only need 2 people to do the pat down searches.  and now the latest things, they have created two lists, one is a no fly list(a TSA and airline combined list), which is still in the planning stages, this is a list where should a person be suspected of causing any trouble(note the fact not having caused trouble) they can be banned from flying for two years, and because of names being the same this will create problems for those who have done nothing wrong.and a simmilar list, that is a DO NOT FLY list this was created only and run only by the TSA, they have a list of people who are suspected of terrorist links, and will not fly and subject to arrest, now a david smith is on this list, problem is that is an extremely common name, and every david smith is now subjected to some extensive checks while checking in. and obviously some other names. And now my favorate. which is more of an older thing but being enforced, the fact they now expect that terrorists will use small personal items such as cameras, cd players, cell phones and gameboys as weapons, and now require you like laptops to switch them on, now my problem here is, in a busy security hall, there could be 500 people in close proximity, should said laptop camera and so on contain a bomb, would it be such a good idea to honestly test it out, there? one button, explosion, 500 dead people where as if they just put it through an extra scan or two no explosion and they can catch the problem. Now i know its very unlikely to see this happen, but it could and i have a feeling it may happen one day.
then of coarse because of these new times of political correctness, they can no longer subject people of middle eastern origin to extra checks, for fear of being considered racisist or persicuting them, but to seem fair they subject poor old granny in a wheel chair to extra searches or little jimmy coming home from disney world to extra wanding. now i am not racisist never have been but why should anyone but kept from extra checks because of where they are from. its getting silly.
and finally these workers are being paid over $15's an hour but require no formal qualifications, they complain theres a budget crisis, where theres the reason, the last security who did a good job as it was were on about $6's an hour.
the government should never have made this agency a private company who have free rule of everything they desire, they are above pretty much everything and are turning us air travel into something that resembles cold war era eastern europe.  i can understand the need for safety, but the whole constitution has been torn up by these people. the freedoms americans once enjoyed have been taken away, and there really was no need for it.
ok sorry if this was a long rant but i felt i had to get this out of my system.  and please if any mods deem this to be removable please do, no hassle about it from myself.
Cheers guys
craig

thanks will:)
i remember pleanty of times living on army bases, we would get the familiar knock on the door that meant a bomb had been found somewhere(middle wallop would be really bad for that:)) we would all have to go down to a playing field till it was sorted. then there were cases where they would have to put armed guards at the entrance but all they would do is a quick search under the cars, in the boot that was it, professional quick and unintrusive.
they need to take that sort of thing into consideration in the US and perhaps put some of the ideas into action, it may help

thanks hype:)
what i meant by the comment of who ran the company, i meant it seems to be run by a bunch of people who arnt being regulated in any way shape or form by the government, although it may be a goverment thing.
and i know the electronics being switched on isnt anything new,but they have been making it take so much time and effort, a laptop like mine takes a heck of a long time to start up and shut down due to the stupid windows log off thing it does, you get 10 of those your causing a back log very quickly. and again it could be a rather large explosive wiping out a security hall of an airport i just think some new machine should be developed that could prevent this from all being nessicary.but again budget crisis:
they dont seem to have any patience either, although in some ways thats a good thing.
anyway you made some good points there hype thanks for the input:)

well as you may or may not know i am niether married nor have kids so that not a problem:) and i have no girlfriend.
but i have no problem with security as a whole, here in the UK we have been doing the whole tight security for years and have rarely had a problem with it. Again my problem is with who is doing the security and how they are going about it, ok it doesnt help their cause that post 9/11 they took my suitcase and emptied it on a table without having any privacy, having a check in hall of people staring at my personal effect and underwear isnt always a good thing and then the person checking it goes off on a rant about how it isnt folded, i am going home i didnt expect you to hold a public viewing of my boxers thank ya very much:) the security before 9/11 was good as it was, it was only because a few mistakes were made that people thought differant, the only problem was those mistakes cost 3000 people their lives on a terrible day,
something needs to be done really, one is employ people with qualifications, as you said it doesnt matter how much training a person has if they are an idiot.
or perhaps they should get adivce from countrys who have been doing this sort of thing for alot longer. in general are they doing a bad job? no not really, they are doing a good enough job with a poor attitude.
although again like you said what sort of lengths can be considered enough to protect your family???
not really a shot at anyone, just a case of me disliking the TSA a great deal

I don't see hyperion's post as a rebuttal at all.  It is an explanation of the reasoning behind why things are the way they are.  As for security delaying flights; I personaly don't have a problem with it.  Make the last check in time on the ticket an hour earlier.

My reason for needing and wanting increased security around aircraft is not for the passengers and crew but for us under the flight path.  On December 21 1988 I was living on the Isle of Man, my father was driving us home over the mountain road from Douglas to Ramsey, away to the north we saw what we thought was a shooting star, it wasn't.  It was the passengers and crew of Pan Am flight 103 dying over scotland and killing people in the little village of Lokerbie, a place no one had ever heard of.

If you choose to fly either as a passenger or as crew you make a choice.  If you live under the flight path of the bombed aircraft you have no choice at all.  I rarely fly and would be happy if all passport holders required extensive back ground checks before boarding their flight, it makes no differance to me and might save my life if the 'plane doesn't explode over my head.

I don't see Craigs rant as an attack on the need for security but an attack on the people doing it.

Will

One thing that has annoyed me in the "post 9/11" world is that the US is sending out "advisors" to other nations (eg us) to help them improve their security.  9/11 happened, as far as I can see it, because a very dedicated, ruthless and lucky set of evil bastards got through US security.  We are supposed to learn lessons from them?

Wha' sup wi dat? (Hyperion quote LOL)

Will

? huh ?

Don't get it.  I want good security.  We NEED good security.  I just don't think that the US governments/air industrys' track record makes them the best to offer advice to others.  Thats all.  It isn't an attack, merely a statement of my perception of the facts.

Will

I definitely agree that the U.S. needs to stop worrying about "offending" people and just say, "Hey, this is how we do things.  If you don't like it, you're at an airport, you know your options."  lol

And yeah, they could probably search bags without dumping them all over the place.  (Really not a good idea anyway, just from the point of view that there could be pressure sensitive explosives in there.  lol) 

As for the comments about your laundry not being folded...that is rude, but it's what you're going to get with the TSA, which up until recently, was only making a hair over minimum wage.  lol

We should follow el al's lead.  They've got a system figured out.  But we never will, because people will be "offended".  Screw em.  lol

Hey Scott,
The reason that Politics got cast out was because it was getting really heavy at the time of the Iraq war.
With so many different beleifs and countries involved, people wanted their voices heard and unfortunatley, people were saying things from different countries, and people from the same countries were taking sides and it started to get real ugly. I mean, even the "mature adults" were going at it.
It is just too sensitive, politics" that is. I think it really got out of control  because we were about to go to war with Iraq, and as you know from just watching the news and reading the papers, even this country was divided!!
Now imagine people ranging from 12 years old to 80 years old, reading things from behind their pc and responding with anger!!
You saw how quickly the Kimber-Ken thing erupted.

I tried to find the threads but I think the "BAD" one was deleted.

Anyway, here are the links to 2 threads that had to do with the whole thing!

Me, I stay out of the political end, as you know from a copy of my email and a lashing from Pete!! LOL

Remember, these threads are meant to "inform" new people as to why Politics is out, it is not to "stirr" up anything!!

Here they are.

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=gen;action=display;num=104...


http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=gen;action=display;num=104...


Dave  8)

i have two more interesting rules the TSA introduced. the No standing rule into washingtons Ronald Regan INTL, and if you havent heard of it, it goes as such, no passenger is allowed to stand once the aircraft has entered the 30 minutes before landing phase of flight. should this happen the plane with be diverted to Dulles or the other one:) and the passenger stands a chance of being arrested. So should anyone need to goto the toilet badly forget it, which ok for adults isnt really a problem, but for a little kid this could become both a parents and passengers worst nightmare behind the screaming baby. and it makes little to no sense what so ever.
the other being, you need a security code to enter washington airspace, again should you forget it, you will be diverted, its only known by the pilots i believe. this has caused a few flights to be diverted because of it.
anyone wanna have a go at those two for explaining it???

The no standing rule was implemented for security reasons to protect the area in and around Washington, D.C.

As I'm sure you know, many commercial flights have Air Marshals aboard.  No one knows who these people are, they don't wear ID that says "Hey, I'm an air marshal" or anything like that.

The reason for the no standing rule is simple.  If anyone stands, the flight crew, and possibly the air marshals (if they're on board), will be able to say "Okay, we've got a situation here", and they'll get a jump start on any potential threat.

It's a decent rule.  You've got the entire flight to pee...no need to do it during your descent.  9 times out of 10 the fasten seatbelt sign is on anyway by then, and you're supposed to be in your seat anyway.