Simviation Forum - How are seaplanes done in cfs2

Aug 3^rd, 2003 at 4:09pm

Glitch Offline
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I am building an aircraft, that I want to use to make a seaplane for cfs2. What is the proceedure? Is it an .air file setting or something like setclass with cfs1?

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Reply #1 - Aug 3^rd, 2003 at 5:36pm

Hagar Offline
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Glitch. It's defined in the Aircraft.cfg [contact_points] Class entries for the gear. Class is the first entry after the point.x=
Class 1 is wheels, Class 2 is Scrape Points, Class 3 is Skids, Class 4 is Floats & Class 5 is Water Rudder. These are the gear entries from the default A6M2_ZERO. Change the Class in bold type from 1 (or 1.000) to 4 for it to float.

[contact_points]
point.0=1, -20.21, 0.00, -1.60, 3200, 0, 0.30,180.0, 0.40, 2.5, 0.80, 7.5, 5.00, 0, 0, 135
point.1=1, 1.41, -5.76, -6.55, 2200, 1, 1.05, 0.0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.83, 2.5, 4.00, 2, 0, 135
point.2=1, 1.41, 5.76, -6.55, 2200, 2, 1.05, 0.0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.83, 2.5, 8.25, 3, 0, 135

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Reply #2 - Aug 4^th, 2003 at 6:05am

Glitch Offline
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Great! Thanks Hagar! That solves one problem. Now for another. How do you controll how deep the fuselage sets in the water? Sorry I should have added that to the original question.

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Reply #3 - Aug 4^th, 2003 at 9:44am

Hagar Offline
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You can set the positions with the gear reference parts in FSDS2. Don't forget that floatplanes will usually have 4 gear points rather than the usual 3. I think this is covered in FSDS2 Help. Not sure as my HD crashed & I don't have it installed right now.

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Reply #4 - Aug 4^th, 2003 at 2:08pm

Glitch Offline
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Well I am still using FSDS 1.6 I have the cash to purchase FSDS2 just lazy I guess. But the aircraft I am doing does have 4 gear. Is the fourth gear point in a float plane specific to the floats? Or as in the case of the aircraft I am building, the fuselage float line? I am using an air file from a Harrier and the aircraft .cfg file has 7 points listed the first 3 are Class 1, the last 4 are Class 2

[contact_points]
point.0=1.000000,13.083333,0.000000,-5.000000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.619394,39.4
20000,0.373591,2.500000,0.579947,5.000000,5.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.1=1.000000,-4.416667,-11.166667,-4.000000,1574.803200,1.000000,0.619394,0.
000000,0.373709,2.500000,0.579917,5.000000,5.000000,2.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.2=1.000000,-4.416667,11.166667,-4.000000,1574.803200,2.000000,0.619394,0.0
00000,0.373709,2.500000,0.579917,5.000000,5.000000,3.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.3=2.000000,-3.916667,-22.583333,7.916667,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.0
00000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,5.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.4=2.000000,-3.916667,22.583333,7.916667,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.00
0000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,6.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.5=2.000000,-43.583333,0.000000,-0.666667,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.0
00000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,9.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.6=2.000000,13.083333,0.000000,-0.666667,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.00
0000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,4.000000,0.000000,0.000000

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Reply #5 - Aug 4^th, 2003 at 2:32pm

Hagar Offline
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Oh OK. You can use the reference parts in FSDS1.6 in the same way. You will need to refer to FSDS Help on how it's done. The entries should be saved to a text file in the FSDS folder when you produce your project. Paste these into the existing CFG, replacing the originals. Make sure the entries run in sequence. The gear will be defined as Class 1 as in the example I gave you earlier. From a quick look that Harrier CFG only has 3 gear entries. point.0, point.1 & point.2.

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Reply #6 - Aug 4^th, 2003 at 10:32pm

Glitch Offline
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Roger! I will try that and I think I will download a coupla Seaplanes and see how they are written. I knew that I would end up doing some extensive rewriting using the harrier for this project when I started. But the short take off and landing ability is a must for this one.

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Reply #7 - Aug 4^th, 2003 at 10:37pm

X Ex Member

There is a japanese float plane, it's the
only one I have found that works the
way I think it should!! It has a single float!
I will look for the file!!

X

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Reply #8 - Aug 5^th, 2003 at 3:23pm

Glitch Offline
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I downloaded the Cfs2 PBY5A2K. And to my supprise 14 points listed! Well hopefully, tonight I can start to figure out which ones do what. I know with my model, when I changed to Class 2 It would land on the water and promptly sink.

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Reply #9 - Aug 5^th, 2003 at 3:48pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

I downloaded the Cfs2 PBY5A2K. And to my supprise 14 points listed! Well hopefully, tonight I can start to figure out which ones do what. I know with my model, when I changed to Class 2 It would land on the water and promptly sink.

Class 2 is the Scrape Points. Basically, these are used for the nose, rear fuselage, tail, wingtips & any point that can touch the ground. The gear for a conventional landplane is usually defined as point.0, point.1 & point.3. For a floatplane these will be Class 4. This simple tweak should make the Harrier in your previous example float.

[contact_points]
point.0=4.000000,13.083333,0.000000,-5.000000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.619 394,39.420000,0.373591,2.500000,0.579947,5.000000,5.000000,0.000000,0.00 0000,0.000000
point.1=4.000000,-4.416667,-11.166667,-4.000000,1574.803200,1.000000,0.6 19394,0.000000,0.373709,2.500000,0.579917,5.000000,5.000000,2.000000,0.0 00000,0.000000
point.2=4.000000,-4.416667,11.166667,-4.000000,1574.803200,2.000000,0.61 9394,0.000000,0.373709,2.500000,0.579917,5.000000,5.000000,3.000000,0.00 0000,0.000000

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Reply #10 - Aug 6^th, 2003 at 6:15am

Glitch Offline
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aka IRAF_Paddy
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I tried it and no go. When I change the points you mentioned. The gear are no longer displayed, when I retract the gear sitting on runway, entire aircraft sank into the ground.
So what I did was save the first 3 point listings, 0,1,2. Then I copied from the PBYs .cfg file the listings for its points 3-13. It works passable well, I am not happy with the floating pitch or depth in the water. But sitting on the runway is almost perfect now. I plan to, by process of elimination, remove the point listings 3-13 one at a time till I find the ones that controll the variables that I need. Then I can write a new .cfg file to fit my visual model. Here is the points list as it is now.

[contact_points]
point.0=1.000000,13.083333,0.000000,-5.000000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.619394,39.4
20000,0.373591,2.500000,0.579947,5.000000,5.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.1=1.000000,-4.416667,-11.166667,-4.000000,1574.803200,1.000000,0.619394,0.
000000,0.373709,2.500000,0.579917,5.000000,5.000000,2.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.2=1.000000,-4.416667,11.166667,-4.000000,1574.803200,2.000000,0.619394,0.0
00000,0.373709,2.500000,0.579917,5.000000,5.000000,3.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.3=4.000000,16.083333,0.000000,-1.766667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.00
0000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,2.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.4=4.000000,16.083333,0.000000,-1.766667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.00
0000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,3.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.5=4.000000,16.083333,0.000000,-1.766667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.00
0000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,3.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.6=4.000000,-5.916667,0.000000,-2.166667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.00
0000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,2.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.7=4.000000,-5.916667,0.000000,-2.166667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.00
0000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,2.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.8=4.000000,-5.916667,0.000000,-2.166667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.00
0000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,3.000000,0.000000,0.000000

point.9=4.000000,9.000000,52.000000,1.766667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.000
000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,2.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.10=4.000000,9.000000,-52.000000,1.766667,2200.000000,0.000000,0.693234,0.0
00000,0.206050,2.500000,0.980962,0.000000,0.000000,3.000000,0.000000,0.000000

point.11=2.000000,1.166667,-52.000000,10.000000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.
000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,5.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.10=2.000000,1.166667,52.000000,10.000000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.0
00000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,6.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.12=2.000000,-21.583333,0.000000,4.500000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.0
00000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,9.000000,0.000000,0.000000
point.13=2.000000,15.833333,0.000000,4.500000,1574.803200,0.000000,0.000000,0.00
0000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,4.000000,0.000000,0.000000

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Reply #11 - Aug 6^th, 2003 at 7:32am

Hagar Offline
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Glitch. Your original question was about a seaplane.
Quote:

I am building an aircraft, that I want to use to make a seaplane for cfs2.

An amphibian is more complicated. I'm working under the handicap of not having FSDS or FS2002 installed right now or I could show you the Aircraft.cfg of the default Caravan as an example.

Typically, an amphibian would have 3 gear points (Class 1) & 4 float points (Class 4). Forget the Scrape points (Class 2) for now. You can delete these entries & add them later. The example in your last reply appears to have a lot of duplicate float entries. Use the FSDS reference parts feature to position these points accurately.

Copied from "About FS Design Studio Aircraft" in FSDS Help.
Quote:

Reference Parts

FS Design Studio allows you to use Reference Parts to give it information about your aircraft. For instance, the placement of the pilot’s viewpoint, landing gear positions, and ‘scrape points’ all must be defined in the AIR file that FS2000 uses to tell it how the aircraft behaves. The ‘Flight Dynamics Editor’ is included with FS Design Studio to allow you to edit those settings. However, if you use Reference Parts, FS Design Studio can automatically make these modifications for you in the aircraft’s AIR file.

Reference parts can be invisible placeholders that do not become part of your aircraft in FS2000, but are just used for positional information. They can also be a visible part of your model. For example, if you build a pilot for your aircraft, you can just make his head a reference point that defines the pilot’s viewpoint.

You create a Reference part by giving a part a special name in the Edit | Part Properties dialog and checking the ‘Reference Part Only’ checkbox if you don’t want the part visible in FS2000.

Note that the use of Reference Parts is optional, but it can save you quite a bit of work making adjustments in the Flight Dynamics Editor later. A complete set of Reference Parts is included with FS Design Studio Pro in the AIRparams.fsc project file and lis listed below:

Gear.Center
Gear.Left
Gear.Right
Pilot.View
Scrape.Front
Scrape.Rear
Scrape.Side

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Reply #12 - Aug 6^th, 2003 at 9:13pm

Glitch Offline
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I spent my lunch hour today experimenting with the .cfg file. I think I have cobbled together one that works. The aircraft now sits lower in the water, I did delete and replace several point entrys to accomplish it. Now I will get out my copy of aircraft container Sdk and fine tune it.

I went ahead and bought FSDS 2 and plan to move to it soon. But from your quote "About FS Design Studio Aircraft" It looks like I need to go back through the help files in FSDS v1. I think I could save a lot of time and effort. Thanks

Glitch

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