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CFS3 Anti-Aircraft Artillery Woes (Read 1048 times)
Jul 30th, 2003 at 4:31am

GooseGoose   Offline
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    Hello,

    First off, this should make a few of you feel much better:  I've just dropped a lot of hard-earned dosh and upgraded my old PC to an Alienware Area-51 (I'm sending my old one back to my parents... they always need more computers).  It's really lovely, though I don't know what to make of the case yet.  It's kind of funny looking.  It's the most top-notch gaming system you can buy (all I play are flight sims and chess), so I was fairly drooling with anticipation as to how CFS3 would do.  I figure that immediately I'm going to set everything to 5 on the detail settings, right?  Wrong.  It took almost two days of incessant tweaking of the Radeon 9800 Pro before I reached something approaching tolerable.  It's working pretty good now.  I get a decent 25-35fps over water and in good weather, and 20-25 over land and bad weather (this is with everything set to 5 except clouds, which are at 2).  But, as soon as I get over London, Paris, Calais, the Caen peninsula, Amsterdam, or Berlin, I drop down to about 10-15, with some stuttering.  Those places have lots of polygons.  What a fecked-out game this is!  It's too bad I love it so much.

    Which brings me to my only real remaining problem: the Anti-Aircraft Artillery.  I seem to recall in CFS2 that the damage from AAA was quite realistic, and cumulative, that is to say, the more AAA fire you took, the worse the damage progressively got.
     Why is this not the case in CFS3?  There is only one specific kind of damage you can ever obtain from AAA fire, and it's something I think you all know quite well: You are hit, the damage text mumbles something about elevator, aileron, wing, cable, and horz stolb(?) damage, you immediately develop a fuel and/or oil leak, oil pressure begins to rapidly drop, and after about 90-180 seconds your engine dies because oil pressure dropped down to nothing or you ran out of fuel.  That's it.  I've been playing this game off and on since last November, and I do not recall even one single variation on this damage theme.  Not once!  I know this problem can be resolved through the DP in the aircrafts' XDP files, because the GroundCrew Bf110s and the 1% aircraft all have remarkable damage profiles.  Does it also require profile modifications for all relevent munitions (88mm Flak, 40mm Bofors, 37mm Flak, and 90mm Flak rounds)?  I was attacking an allied airfield in the GroundCrew Bf110 R4 (a brilliant aircraft) and was hit by flak.  Naturally, I asssumed I would soon receive the standard fuel-leak/oil-leak result and have to bail.  Not so!  The right engine, and the right engine only, sputtered and coughed, smoked and spit, and after a few minutes, died.  But the left kept plugging away and I nursed the poor plane back to base.  I nearly wept with joy over this display of much-needed realism.
    I can't seem to make heads or tails of the damage profiles in CFS3... I know the basics, but it's the specifics that throw me (boolean strings, die rolls, etc.).  I know there is an Microsoft Word document that comes with the A&V SDK that supposedly explains XDP files, but it is, (as is usual for Microsoft) woefully inadequate.  It could barely be considered a lousy glossary.  In fact, it's an insult to all other lousy glossaries the world over.
    I'm flying my custom-painted Spit MkIXc (see photo) in a campaign right now, and this is the plane I'm tinkering with.  To see if it would help with the obnoxious "engine-death" flak damage, I went into my Spit's XDP file and slightly lowered the Probability percentage on engine_one, oil_reservoir, coolant_reservoir, and nose_structure.  Then when I flew, I received no damage from flak whatsoever!  Bollocks!  I circled over the 2-destoyer/1-cruiser ship formation at 2000 feet for over five minutes, flak bursting all around me, and I was never hit once, in any part of the plane.  I know the Kriegsmarine was better than that.  Back to the drawing board.  There's no tutorials of any kind available yet for damage profiles in CFS3?  I've scoured the internet, and have found nothing.

    One final gripe, and then I'm off.  I'm sure you've all noticed that enemy AA can be fired through hillsides, buildings, and even underground.  "As Real As It Gets", my arse.  I've tried for ages to create a more realistic field of fire for all the AAA in the game, but no luck.  This is what I've tried so far:
  • I adjusted the "DownLimit" angle in the XDP files for all AA Artillery pieces and guns on ships to something approaching reality... I tried 15°.  No luck.  This had no effect whatsoever.  It's as if flak isn't really fired from the guns at all, but simply spawns randomly in mid air wherever your plane is located.  I even set the DownLimit to 45°, but still got hammered 50 feet off the ground!
  • I checked in the SPAWNS folder to see if there was an XML or SPAWN file that directly references AA Fire, but there's nothing!
  • Then I got really serious and dug deep inside the CFS3.exe file, and all the other executable files in the main CFS3 folder, but still found nothing.


     If anyone has any hints, suggestions, insults, or anything else regarding a solution, I've love to hear them.
    I really believe in this game.  I think that for all of it's flaws, it has big potential, and may become a great platform for many future projects.  Now, if I only knew enough XML and C++ to bring the sow up to speed!  However, sometimes I feel like a idiot spouse that keeps running back to their abusive husband or wife over and over and over and.....
    Anyway, if you've actually read this far... Thanks!  You're bluddy great.



My first view of England on the new PC.  Now, I've flown over Essex a few times, in real life, and I do not recall ever seeing this.
...

My lovely Spit (with Irish flag).  Spits make great torpedo bombers.
...
 

Alienware Area 51&&Pentium IV 3.2gHz&&240GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD&&2.0GB ddr SDRAM&&ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB&&Windows XP Pro&&&&...and CFS3 still stutters!
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Reply #1 - Jul 30th, 2003 at 8:06am

maverick8806   Offline
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Hi,  I know exactly what u mean with the AAA. It's a real pitty but, hey, at least u get "some" damage. It's the same most time's with dogfights, BUT, not in multiplayer dogfights. I play on that mode often, and most times when I'm shot, it's nice to see how my aircraft got damaged Tongue. The tail is burning like hell, even the engine goes up in flames, wings that are getting shot off..., so this is the prove I think that Microsoft is not all to blame. The AI just sucks I guess. Anyway, just try multiplayer and I think u'll get some more fun.
 
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Reply #2 - Jul 30th, 2003 at 5:27pm

GooseGoose   Offline
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     Maverick.

     That's reasonable advice.  Thanks.  I have severe doubts though that I'll even be able to join a game... I've nearly hacked my installed version of CFS3 to death!  I cannot believe it still works.  I think I may have to do a new, "stock" installation in a completely seperate directory just to use for multiplayer purposes only!  Roll Eyes
 
     Happy flying.
 

Alienware Area 51&&Pentium IV 3.2gHz&&240GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD&&2.0GB ddr SDRAM&&ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB&&Windows XP Pro&&&&...and CFS3 still stutters!
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Reply #3 - Jul 31st, 2003 at 8:10pm

chomp_rock   Offline
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I have AAA woes as well for instance the AAA fires at me while I am on the ground. I also have the rainbow ground and flat white ground prob I belive it is a driver conflict.
 

AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition
&&&&That's right, I'm now using an AMD! I decided to give them another try and they kicked the pants off of my P4 3.4!
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Reply #4 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 3:10am

mcsquared   Offline
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Try the website www.combatplanes.ca. ; They sell payware but also have some free downlaods that  restricts the angle of fire for the AA guns or so they say.  I have not had as much of a problem with the AA after installing their fix.  They also "beef up" the control cables, etc. on several aircraft to resist complete loss of control.

What's the speed of your new Alienware computer? Wink
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 5:17am

Mathias   Offline
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As for engine damage, MS screwed quite a bit on some key systems.
There is only one coolant and oil reservoir each per plane, even on two engine aircraft.
You´ve seen that before, you punch the mossie´s left wing and the right engine goes up in flames, LOL.
Or you receive oil ereservoir damage and both engines die.
We came around the issue for the BF110´s by not implementing coolant and oil systems at all but put some more weight on engine damage instead.
 

Mathias&&...
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Reply #6 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 10:30am

GooseGoose   Offline
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     Hallo Mathias!

     I thought you might reply!  Again, I love GC's Bf110s.  If only Willy Messerschmitt had had any idea you would be recreating his aircraft so well 70 years later!  What would he have thought?
     I certainly agree that the damage boxes for all of the stock planes are far too few, and far too small!  I swear that a bullet through the rudder of one of the fighters causes the engine to catch on fire!
     It appears to me as though damage boxes are tied directly to the m3d model?  That is, you can't really add more damage boxes within the XDP file?  Or can you?
     Anyway, I've been studying 1%'s damage profiles and I think I am beginning to sense a pattern, so hopefully I will be able to make some positive adjustments to my own stock aircraft.

     Bis spät.
 

Alienware Area 51&&Pentium IV 3.2gHz&&240GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD&&2.0GB ddr SDRAM&&ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB&&Windows XP Pro&&&&...and CFS3 still stutters!
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Reply #7 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 11:45am

bobc1   Offline
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Hi Goose,

Welcome to the world of Simviation and of course Alienware. I have an older Alienware that I've upgraded just about as far as it will go and CFS3 is still a real challenge for it. It's about time that I buy a new computer, one with the newer 800MHz FSB motherboard and a P4_3.x but I still don't think that even with the newest and faster computer out there that it will fly CFS3 without slowing it down and stuttering. In 3DMark 2001 SE I benchmark in the 14,000s and the latest and greatest computers like yours are in the 17,000s... without any OC'ing that is. I'm a diehard flight simmer and don't game very much on my computer but I know that it's plenty fast (even overly fast) for games like MOHAA and Max Payne but the flight simulators just really put a hurting on all the computers that are out there.

If you remember back to the old PCI-based 3DFX Voodoo cards you could SLI (Single Line Interweave) 2 of them together for almost a doubling of performance. I wish it were possible to buy a motherboard with 2 AGP slots on it so we could use 2 AGP video cards which were able to be SLI-ed together. Maybe then we could flight sim CFS3 without too much slow down especially when the scenes gets REAL busy with lots of AI and explosions.

Looking at the screenshot of Essex that you posted, it appears as though you don't have the latest Catalyst 3.6 drivers installed for your 9800 Pro and your textures are screwing up. Those weird texture problems in CFS3 with the ATI cards were addressed in the release the Catalyst 3.5 drivers and I assume in the latest 3.6s. I've downloaded the 3.6s but haven't installed them or the new control panel yet.

I'm able to fly Quick Combat missions in CFS3 (1 wingman) with pretty good framerates averaging around 40 or so and as high as 70. But when a lot of stuff is blowing up and I fly through the smoke and flames they can reduce down to around 10FPS. And when I fly missions with a lot of wingmen and AI and there's stuff going on in the scene it can really get annoyingly slow.

I have my resolution set to 1280X1024X32 and the detail sliders set to 4 except the clouds which I set to 3.

My Direct3D AA and AF are set to 4X sampling and the sliders set to 3/4 Quality.
And in CFSconfig Window-Overrides I:
Disable the Intro Movie
Disable Dual Pass Render
Enable High Resolution Z  Buffer

These are the only tweaks that I use.

And I updated to version CFS3.1 and added the No_CD crack as well with DirectX 9.0(b).

My favorite aircraft of choice now is one I paid $28.00 for from Lago. OUCH!! It's the F-16 and it's really fun to fly. I'm waiting on Ubi Soft/Eagle Dynamics LO:MAC combat flight simulator to be released in the next couple of months so I'm practicing up on the F-16 during the 1940's era in CFS3! You can get Jerry Beckwith's free Grumman F9F-2 Panther (for CFS3) in an original gMax design at

http://www.mudpond.us/aircraft3_index.html

which is also a very fun post-WWII jet to fly.

You said that you've almost hacked your current installation of CFS3 to death so if it keeps screwing up maybe a fresh install is needed. Just a thought.

Maybe I'll see ya at Alienware's General Discussion forum.

Watch your six, Bob.

Alienware Intel D850GB mobo w/P4_1.3GHz 400MHz FSB CPU upgraded to a P4_2.0(A) with the PowerLeap PL-P4/N adapter and then finally to the P4_2.6GHz. I'm tired of smearing thermal grease!
Sony 21" Multiscan E540/B
WinXP Pro_SP-1
512MBs PC-800 RDRAM
Radeon 9700 Pro w/Catalyst 3.5 Driver Suite
DirectX_9.0
40GB 7200RPM IBM Deskstar
Creative Soundblaster Live! Value (yeah, I know!)
Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 speakers
U.S. Robotics 56K Fax PCI (ain't offered broadband here yet)
HOTAS Cougar joystick/throttle
Latest 3DMark2001 SE = 14,230



 

Bob
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Reply #8 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 11:47am

mcsquared   Offline
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Wow! Goose! That's the system I'm thinking about buying!  I'm surprised you still get stutters.  I have a Athlon 1.6GHz  and a GeForce Ti 4600 video card.  I set my aircraft and effects to "5," clouds to "3," and rest to "4" and do not get stutters at all.  I have my anisotropic filtering set to "2," antialiasing "off" and vertical sync "on by default."  One of the first improvements I ever saw was setting the filtering to "2" eliminated all those weird colors that are in the screen shot you posted.  I also am using Detonators 44.90 video card drivers (beta) that I got from Guru.
 
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Reply #9 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 6:49pm

GooseGoose   Offline
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     Thanks Bob and Mcsquared,

     I should have specified that the photo I provided was only temporary, and I did figure out what was causing the glitch... I have very few texture anomalies now.
     Within my Radeon 9800 Pro settings, I have AA, AF, and Vertical Sync settings within both an OpenGL or Direct3D environment.  I found that if I any of those settings are on within the OpenGL settings, I had severe graphics issues.  I have since only been able to use the three (AA, AF, and VS) within the Direct3D format, with AA set to 8x  (it can go to 16x) and Anisotropic Filtering set to 2x.  I don't claim to know the difference between OpenGL and Direct3D.  My ATI Radeon interface calls OpenGL "SmoothVision™".
     I have all the latest drivers, the no CD patch, the 3.1 patch... everything.
     It seems weird that I have a combined Video Memory/RAM of over 2GB, but yesterday I set my Windows Swap File to even even larger amount (4500MB), and this seemed to finally weed out the last of the stuttering... except for the crucial areas of the map.  It's really odd... it's as if CFS3 refuses to use anything except the Hard Drive for memory!  I would give anything if CFS3 would load huge swatches of terrain and scenery before you flew, like all previous flight sims have done, but I realize with the dynamic scenery and many different spawns that this would probably be impossible.
     About five years from now, we will all have systems that can handle CFS3:

     1.4Tb Hard Drive 21,000 RPM
     Pentium VI Processor 8.4gHz
     16GB SDRAM
     nVidia GeForce FX 666 2.0GB RAM (the 666 series will be revolutionary)

     ...Or something like that.

     Sorry you can't get broadband Bob... that's a real drag.  There's no way I could go back to dial-up.  In fact, Broadband availablility would even dictate where I live now!  I've fallen in the trap!

    

     -Don't eat the smeat.

     
 

Alienware Area 51&&Pentium IV 3.2gHz&&240GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD&&2.0GB ddr SDRAM&&ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB&&Windows XP Pro&&&&...and CFS3 still stutters!
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Reply #10 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 6:52pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
As for engine damage, MS screwed quite a bit on some key systems.
There is only one coolant and oil reservoir each per plane, even on two engine aircraft.
You´ve seen that before, you punch the mossie´s left wing and the right engine goes up in flames, LOL.
Or you receive oil ereservoir damage and both engines die.
We came around the issue for the BF110´s by not implementing coolant and oil systems at all but put some more weight on engine damage instead.



Thanks for that. You've just explained why in my Mosquito both my engines cut out at the same time 5 minutes after bombing something. Tongue Wink
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #11 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 8:20pm

bobc1   Offline
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Hi Goose,

I'm no expert in video cards but I think most games or sims just use OpenGL or just Direct3D but not both of them. I believe CFS3 uses Direct3D only.

So for a test you could use the "Application Preference" settings with the sliders set all the way to "Performance" in OpenGL to kind of turn that off and just try my settings in Direct3D of 4X for both the AA and the AF and set to sliders to 3/4 or all the way to "Quality". I've heard that some people get better results with the AF set to 8X and I tried that but I didn't notice any improvement.

I don't know why you're not getting better results with your maxxed out Alienware rig. Have you tried turning off the paging file? (swap file) I just looked in my XP Control Panel/System to see what I had mine set to. I usually have it set to 1024 or 768 both min and max and I have it situated on my D partition. But when I just looked I had the "No Paging File" button highlighted so I guess I've been flying around with CFS3 since the last time I got really drunk and forgot that I chose that option! It's been flying fine without any paging file at all.

If you turn off your paging file maybe it will force your system RAM take up the slack and start to work correctly. Or maybe your RAM isn't working properly. You could try moving the modules around to different slots and see if that helps. Or remove them all except for one and see how that works and then test out the remaining ones in the #1 slot and add them back one at a time while observing your system's performance. I only have 512MBs of RDRAM (4-128MB RIMMS) in mine and with no paging file to fall back on leads to me to believe that 512MBs is plenty.

You could download a free memory tester called GoldMemory v5.07 here.

http://www.simtel.net/product.php?id=56576

Maybe I'll see ya at the Alienware Customer Support forums and listen to you complain to the AW techs about your memory!

I hope everything works out for ya. I better get offline now... I'm in Florida and there's a huge lightning storm over my house and I'm afraid I might get hit.

Good luck.

 

Bob
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Reply #12 - Aug 1st, 2003 at 11:14pm

GooseGoose   Offline
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I like waterfowl.
Belfast, N.I. and Seattle, WA

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     Holy cow Bob!  Mind the lightning!

     Thanks for the tips!  However, I had the same idea about my memory, and one of the first things I did when I noticed trouble was to turn my Swap File down to 2Mb (the minimum windows allows), to see if it would force the game to use my video memory and RAM... but it resulted in terrible performance.  Really peculiar.  Microsoft suggests setting your Swap File to 150% of your RAM... so in your case, that would be 768MB (It took me about 45 seconds to add that up in my head).  Every computer is different though, I suppose.  And I did check the RAM modules themselves too... it's four 512 cards, and they appeared to be all right.
     I shouldn't really complain at all... I've got it set to consistently good performance levels, with most of the graphics setting maxed out (all 5, clouds 3).  I just sort of expected perfection with such a top-notch system.  It's completely playable and enjoyable now... but it took a good amount of work to get it to this point.  I really think that the only reason we gripe so much, and obsess so much about CFS3 is because we like it so much.
     I'm sure if I played Doom III, Half-Life II, or Trinity, I would notice some pretty unbelievable performance!  I'll tell you what though, my version of Microsoft Chess for Windows 3.1 has never been faster!
     I don't think anything is going to be quite the performance hog that a good Flight-Sim is, as CFS3 has more than adequately proved.

      cheerio.
 

Alienware Area 51&&Pentium IV 3.2gHz&&240GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD&&2.0GB ddr SDRAM&&ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB&&Windows XP Pro&&&&...and CFS3 still stutters!
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Reply #13 - Aug 2nd, 2003 at 1:54am

bobc1   Offline
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Hi Goose,

Yeah, that lightning got really close. My electricity didn't go out but it hit so close that a "magnetic" blast or whatever made the screen on my monitor "wiggle" or distort. I've never had that happen before.

It appears to me now that we've chatted a bit that your computer is working fine. We just happen to like flight simulators and as you say, they are hardware hogs. And as The Stones most aptly put it, "You can't get always get what ya want". But if you try real hard you just might find, ya get enough to flight sim on and have a good time with. I always over-expect the performance that a new computer will afford me, or a new video card or a CPU upgrade. Microsoft really did produce a sim that can't be maxxed out on any existing home computer today. Something to work towards I reckon.

I'll bet LO:MAC will be the same.

At the Alienware website they have a couple benchmarking programs at their software download page if you'd like to test out your new computer and compare it with like systems. Or go to Futuremark (Madonion) at http://www.futuremark.com/download/ and download the 3DMark2001 SE (330) benchmarking program. Or the newer and "beefier" 177MB file (my first hard drive was all of 250MBs!) 3DMark®03 (New Version - Build 320) benchmarking program. In 3DMark2001 SE your P4_3.2GHz should benchmark around 17,500 depending on how you have it set up.

I like CFS3 a lot too. It's the only sim that I really fly anymore. Once in awhile I'll do a carrier landing with an F-15 in CFS2 or take-off and land with a 747 for a change of pace. I have FS2002 but don't really care for it. Especially the views.

I have Chessmaster 5 around here somewhere I think. Whenever I get a craving to get my ass kicked in chess I'll go to the "Zone" and pick up a "parkbench" game there. Haven't done it in for quite some time though.

It's a bummer not having broadband. I can't multi-play with any kind of performance so I rarely even try. The cable company has been promising me for the past 6 years to run the appropriate lines here but ... I never was a real fan of my local monopolistic cable provider anyway! I have Dishnet so I don't have to watch the static that comes through over the 20 year old cable lines that exist here now.

Have you ever thought about getting a HOTAS Cougar joystick/ throttle combo. It adds so much realism to the sim. Just don't drop it on your foot, they weigh a ton. Check out:

http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/

There's a whole "cult" following around them!

If you want to try out the F-16 in CFS3 send me a PM and I'll see what I can do.  Wink

Have a nice flight.

Edit. Don't you have the option to turn off your paging file completely? Just to test it. With all your RAM you really shouldn't need one with CFS3. I have XP Pro and like I said, there's a button in there to completely turn it off. Maybe you should look into that ... why you need such a huge paging file to get better performance doesn't make sense to me. Hmmmm...

Here are assorted averaged benchmarks from an Alienware P4_3.2GHz w/ 1gig of RAM.

3DMark2001SE = 17835
3DMark2003 = 6207
QuakeII timedemo 1 = 358.2fps


« Last Edit: Aug 2nd, 2003 at 8:43am by bobc1 »  

Bob
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