WOW SHARP!!!!

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Rephrase that again please lol  ??? d ont quite get you.

WOW! I thought it would be ages before we saw a Lanc for CFS3.
It'll be great to have some heavies for a change!

Biggles

Vee hav vays of deeling mit Lancasters in Germany!!!
Looking forward to make up some missions for this neat plane. Bet its hard to come up on from its six. Can't wait to see what the 50 on a U4 does to this.
Thanks in advance for your efforts. It is greatly appreciated. Now if someone makes the Tirpitz and you do a tallyho version of your Lancaster. I can almost smell the Krupp metal burning!
BOB RUFF

Looking good Dan. Now all we need is a B-29. They used to build the Lancs not too far from where I live. The building still stands, as a symbol of Canada's greatest aviation achivements including the Avro Arrow. I think Boeing uses it as a hanger now but people are lobbying to turn it into a national historic site. It's the large green roof building across from the International Centre in Malton Ontario, which used to be the old Orenda Engines plant. Very nice place. Howeverthe surrounding area is in a state of decay because it tends to be where the poorer move to.

Yep the B-29, how about a B-36 Peacemaker? That planes HUGE!

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Hate to be a nuisance, but the B-29 was the Superfortess.  The B-52 is the Stratofortress.

Ooooh...nightfighter!

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Don´t tell that too loud, many more Lanc´s fell victim to BF110´s than v.v.
The Lanc was an overweighted labil elephant full of unprotected fuel and bombload. Once in sight it was more than likely dead meat.

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OOOH If you wish to play dirty mate, then the 110 was a definate underpowered fighter that didnt cut it against the mossie and so on..
the lanc was definately not overweighted.. well.. even if she was she could cope. but more importantly...

if your so sure, when i finish off the payloads for her, hows about we both run up cfs3 on multi. One lanc, my other two teammates in the mossies; and you and two others in the 110. or 3 lancs v 110's. We'll see whos the elephantish plane then 

He-111's were jumped and killed by hurricanes and spits all the time, and i'm sure the bf-110 was, well, limited in performance or something like that.
As i said, go take a look at the vulc. Another AVRO BOMBER that can LOOP ROLL and kick supreme ass. Just as the lancy can.
Plus it actually did its job and could carry bombs. Unlike certain counterparts...

but, as i say, pit your word against mine and lets put our money where our mouths are. 3 v 3 multiplayer, night raid on a factory or some other facility. Be also an interesting arrangement for both groups i think too.
8)

LOL, gentlemen, don´t let this turn into a s***fight or something.
The hole thing is 60 years ago and history has been written.
Having said said that, all accounts say the same, so there is not much space left to argue, national pride aside.

cabdude, to answer your question, yes, the antennas are decoration, no good way to make radar work.
We have searchlights in and we found a good way to simulate "window".
As far as radar goes we´re stuck with the tactical display and some kind of briefing info.

BTW, who is talking about Heinkels?

Yeah, good one!!!
we need a "neutral" instance to take care of the performance of the both planes.
What about offering your plane to the guys at http://www.avhistory.org/ for tracking down damage profiles and flight model?

err, ehm, what about scanning your other Lancaster shots for me? always loved the bird and always looking for references.

i was working on a shorts sunderland but recently stopped work on it due to lack of plans etc.
however, it may well appear for fs2004 from me.

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Yep, compared to single engine fighters piloted by highly couraged men during the BoB.
but actually the 110 was better than her *post war* reputation.
quote from Capt. Eric Brown who evaluated most of the german aircraft during and after the war:

..........In the Battle of Britain the BF110 fell far short of anticipation and its limited success was to lead to a widespread belief that it was an unsuccessful design. This was, in fact, far from the case, for the Messerschmitt strategic fighter was not the indifferent warplane that its showing during the "Battle" led many to believe. It was a very effective warplane but inadequate understanding of the Führungsstab of the limitations of the strategic fighter category led to its incorrect deployment with the result that the Zerstörergruppen suffered some 40 percent attrition within less than three weeks of the launching of Adlerangriff.

A soundly designed warplane

Having attempted to present the rationale of the BF110´s relatively poor showing in British skies during the summer of 1940, wich resulted in this elegant warplane being adjudged unfairly by many aviation historians as unsuccessful. I would make the point that, apart from the debacle of the Zerstörergruppen during the Battle of Britain, the BF110 served with a fair degree of distinction throughout the whole of WWII as both diurnal and nocturnal interceptor, as an intruder and fighter-bomber, and in a variety of other operational roles, the basic design proving amenable to power plant changes and to accomodating armament, avionics and other equipment far beyond anything envisaged at the time of its conception.
By any standards, therefore, the BF110 must be deemed a success, and I was certainly never to meet a German pilot that disliked it      an accolade indeed........................
................................
..........................
Performancewise the BF110 was certainly significantly superior to what I suppose can be considered as its nearest British counterpart, the Beaufighter, and it was certainly appreciably more manouvreable than the heavier and larger Bristol aeroplane with its substantially greater wing loading, and in consequence there can be little doubt that the Messerschnitt was the better day fighter.
End of quote.

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LOL, no fight, just counter-acting paroles with the view of a widely accepted expert , a British expert may I add, not even talking about numbers and facts yet.
Not shure yet if you´re kidding me or if you´re serious.

If you want me to test your Lancy out, I´d be happy to do so. Just drop me a line to mathias@groundcrewdesign.com
BTW, who will do the damage and flight model portion of your project?
I was serious when I asked you to give it to the AVhistory guys to take care of it.

Ehm, Dan, just to well understand:
you mean a dogfight between Lanc
and 110?

LOL...I hope he doesn't mean a dogfight!  As manouvable as a Lacaster is, it's still going to be mauled by the 110...

The gunner's in a Lanc should be able to take out the 110 if they're as good as the one on the B-17G...I can't get near those things without getting destroyed!

Hmm, what would you want with the mossies?
They didn´t fly close escort  but intruder missions against the German nightfighter airfields.
However not scared about them either so if you want.....

Rule would be though to use exclusively AVhistory airfiles and xdp´s to guarantee a standard and to avoid any sort of modded uberplanes. Would that be ok with you?

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Here goes:
Visit http://www.avhistory.org/
make yourself familiar with what´s up there, enter their forums, post some shots of your Lancy and ask if they would be interested in making the flight dynamics and damage profile for your bird.
I´m shure you´ll get an emmediate response.

ok then... lancy and 110.  8)

Dan,
     Great Lanc you have there. But I would be careful about taking on Groundcrews Nightfighter Squadron. You might met Mathias's Me110's cousin one dark night. It's a long walk back from Berlin. (LOL)
Have a look at the bottom my Album and you will see what we do to Mossies and Lanc's like yours.

http://community.webshots.com/user/greglaw100

By the way this is just for fun.

lol, yes you might well do it to planes *like* ours, but not *ours* oh nononono. we will kick you all out the sky like people falling out of flying cardboard boxes.

so, time and a date peeps, time and a date 

Mathias, you're leader for the luftwaffe.. you decide 

lol ok then...

and, i cant wait that long. even if it is a few days. fancy a team fight of 109's and 190's v spits and.. erm.. tempests?

Oh yes it is, soon Dan will export it to FS and I can test it in 2k4, then you will see the bomber show its style. But the firepower is in CFS3.

yeahyeah he cheated.

how dare you speak!

silence you cheater! 

[self_denial_mode_v.101]

i lost 

[/self_denial_mode_v.101]

Dan ,
        How about giving us some images of the Gun positions and the Cockpit.
I'm real keen to see these so I can judge my own effort on the Wellington's turrets.

Greg Law
Groundcrew

Can I just point out that a fight between Bf110's and lanc's would be no contest at all. Look what happened over Nuremburg when the bomber stream didn't have the cover of clouds as well as darkness. The British bomber stream was slaughtered by the german nightfighters. Infact some Bf110 pilots got up to 5 or 6 lancs each that night.

And Mathias, will this Bf110 have upward firing machine guns to rake the bottom of the allied bombers? Please say yes please say yes etc.

Also, the Bf110 "Circle of death" tactic was complete rubbish. All the allied fighters did then was pick em off one by one from the flanks.

[cough]lanc has no ball turret[/cough]

only on later versions. or version. fitted in place or at the rear of the H2S radome bubble aft of the bomb bay.

     This really must be the longest thread in the history of Forums. 
    
     Dan, the Lancaster looks great (very pretty for a big girl)!  What's the ETA on her release?  I can hardly wait to see it!  Are you going to make the 22,000-lb bomb that went along with her?  Wouldn't that be just the thing for the aircraft factory in Berlin?  11,000 pounds of Torpex would certainly make a dent.

     Mathias, ich haben alle von GC Bf110s die andere Nacht schließlich geladen, und ich liebe sie! Es ist wirklich ausgezeichnete Arbeit, und ein wunderbares Flugzeug. Ich habe sie in einen Wahlkampf, wo sie bewundernswert schon gestellt durchführen. Und es war eine große Freude zu sehen, daß der Bf110 in meinen Briten und Amerikaner Wahlkämpfe auch erscheint! Verzeihen Sie meinem Deutsch, Ich habe nur in einer Amerikanischen Sekundärschule drei Jahre gedauert. 

     As far as the Lanc against the 110, I'm going to have to put my money on the 110.  I took the Bf110 R4 (with the 37mm Flak) up against a formation of AVHistory's B-17s at 25,000 and I slaughtered four of them (climbing to high altitude and pouncing on top of them), though I was finally shot down by their hail of fire... and that B-17Molly is one durable bomber!  It's a day's work to bring down one of those things in the other fighters... even those equipped with 30mm cannons.  If you (Dan) create a realistic Damage Profile for her, I don't know if the poor Lanc can stand too many 37mm rounds.  Anyway, that's just my humble opinion.

       Great work, both of you.  I look forward to seeing what you produce in the future.

     Here's a great Avro Lancaster website I found: http://pjwhitfield.freeservers.com/

hmm, Dan, not to step in your six again,
but the Lanc was anything but well protected.
Infact, the Avro constructors stripped down anything what could add weight, the plane didn´t even have self-sealing tanks, and the wings where full of fuel.
The Luftwaffe nightfighters aimed for wings and engines,
it made a way to big boom when they aimed for the fuselage and it´s bombload.
Once the nightfighters had spotted the Lanc they homed in using their radar and the bomber was deadly hit before the crews even knew what had happend, mind you, in the dark.
There was even discussion wether the crews should use their defense armamanent at all, due to the risk of hitting friendly planes or even  the own plane.
Look at the Lanc top turret, it has this large frame around it, this is to keep a trigger-happy gunner away from hitting the own plane!
Their defense consisted in the main thing of the corkscrew manover. The bomber flew left/down - right/down - right/up -left/up, to confuse the radar on the nightfighter, mind you, we´re speaking of night missions.
I have a report where a Lancaster pilot played cat and mouse that way for two hours with a german nightfighter, but this was more the exception than the rule.
don´t get me wrong, this is by far no "mine-is-better-than-yours" thing.
You know I make a Lancaster myself, wouldn´t even do it If I´d dislike the bird or something:)
It´s just so that a hunter is a hunter and a hunt is a hunt.

any estimate of when it will be done?

[quote author=Dan, TLUK link=board=cfs3;num=1058995368;start=60#68 date=07/30/03 at 16:28:04]lol well then mat.... at least she was one of a kind!quote]

She shure was, Dan!
and of course we´ll see us in the skies:)

BTW, how´s the deal with the 1% guys comming along?

Dan....

Any updates on this beauty?  Or have the current Avhistory troubles slowed down the process?  If you would like, I can beta test for you.  Just drop me a line in the ol' PM box.

GrizMan

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All in due time...