Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Flaps and Lift argument (Read 1078 times)
Reply #15 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 6:22am

Fozzer   Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861
*****
 
Quote:
Foz. Many light aircraft use the "Plain Flap" which works on a basic hinge. There is a variation called the "Slotted Flap" which involves an inset hinge point. The principle of a Fowler flap is different in that it slides back on a rail or track while extending, creating a gap between the wing & the leading edge of the flap. The Fowler flap has a streamlined aerofoil section to smooth out the airflow in the gap. Most modern airliners use a more complex multi-slotted Fowler flap like this example on the Boeing 727.


Mornin' Doug...!
Thanks for the info... Wink...!
So all my little babies have "Plain Flaps"....sorted... Grin...!
"Plain" I like, as in plain English, plain flour, etc,.. Grin...!
LOL...LOL...LOL...!

Cheers mate, have a good week-end... 8)...!
Paul.
(Hereford).
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
IP Logged
 
Reply #16 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 6:36am

Hagar   Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159
*****
 
Hi Foz. I was surprised to realise the single engined Cessnas now use the simple flap where the complete trailing edge is hinged. Never really thought about it. I'm sure at least some Cessnas I saw back in the 60s had the Split Flap, like the ones on your Austers (& Ozzy's Spitfires).

...

Have a good weekend yourself. I'm off out to enjoy some of this sunshine.  Cheesy
 

...

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery
IP Logged
 
Reply #17 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 9:18am

Jim_Hanna   Offline
Major
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 4
*****
 
Hi guys
           On this question on the purpose of flaps, if you will allow me l'm put on my old airframe fitter's hat from my R.A.F. days. as l remember it the use of flaps is all tied in with the theory of lift, and we cover that sort of thing in the airframe course. 
          Flaps increase lift, but as lift and drag are tied together and work in opposite directions the use of flaps also increases drag.  To counter the increase in drag when the flaps are lowered the pilot adds a little power. Anytime you fly on a commercial flight you will notice as the flaps are lowered the engines will run up a touch.
         it is also correct that Concorde does not have flaps, neither has the Vulcan.  Their large delta wing also acts as a huge airbrake.  l can remember many years ago sitting by the side of the runway at St Athan in South Wales watching the vulcan land. when the main wheels settled on the runway the pilot would lift the nose. The huge delta would trap the air beneath and the aircraft would almost stop dead on the spot, quite a sight.  So there we go flaps increase lift, but also increase drag.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #18 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 10:27am
visitor;AKA:X   Ex Member

 
This tread sure gave me a pick me up,
I needed a lift this morning!!! Grin

X
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #19 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 11:23am

fisharno   Offline
Colonel
Your basic Forum Rat
Reno, Nv

Gender: male
Posts: 626
*****
 
So, I guess the moral of the story, AstroGeek, is that you and your friend were both right, in a way.

Grin
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #20 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 2:12pm

Rifleman   Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622
*****
 
Since Hagar has come so close, shall I now enter into a dissertation on the other grand device for landing, and thats the "spoiler"?...all this lift/drag stuff is my beautiful world of gliders...when you have no power source other than the potential energy of altitude, you need to address lift/drag and what controls both to fly effectively......
...and about the miss that Hagar introduced, Deltas use "elevons" not "flaperons".........they control pitch by moving in the same direction and roll by moving in opposite directions........flaperons are ailerons which can be drooped to provide some measure of extra lift in addition to the flaps, while still moving differentially to give the necessary roll control.........for maximum drag on a glider, we use 90 degrees of down flap for drag(dgar) while utilizing 45 degrees of up aileron for spoiler, to reduce lift and shorten effective wingspan, hence increasing effective wingloading and increasing effective sinkrate, and slowing the descent while not increasing airspeed .........landing is imminent........

I could go on for hours on this one........... Roll Eyes  8)  Wink  Grin
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #21 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 2:19pm

Rifleman   Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622
*****
 
Quote:
This tread sure gave me a pick me up,
I needed a lift this morning!!! Grin

X


If I was dealing with a tread, I'd keep it on the tires of my car..........get better traction with good tread....... ???  Roll Eyes  Grin  Grin
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #22 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 3:00pm

Lethal.Ambition   Offline
Colonel
They call me John.
Florida

Gender: male
Posts: 1563
*****
 
Quote:
Actually, most of the "lift" a wing generates is due to the area of lower pressure on the TOP of the wing.


OK I am getting this thing now........my next question is: If most of the lift a wing generates is on the top then how do the flaps help to create lift on the bottom? or did I understand wrong
 

Oderint Dum Metuant - Let them hate as long as they fear.&&Proud member of the =XE= Xtreme Eagles&&Oderint Dum Metuant&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #23 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 3:50pm

Rifleman   Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622
*****
 
Here is the lowdown.....lift is a function of airfoil shape, wingspan, wing area(varied by Fowler flaps and leading edge flap droop and open slots to keep airflow attached), angle of attack(Varied by amount of Fowler flap deployed), and airspeed, and then has drag acting upon it and is varied by Fowler flap, lead edge flap, and spoiler deploymemt......
Quite simple, .........innit ?.......

As for the "lift" being developed by either the upper or lower surface, you can develop your own theory which is more important, as its a pressure differential which always moves a high pressure area into a low pressure area.........high under the wing trying to move towards the low pressure above the wing, which in turn supports the weight of the A/C.......

There is also another school of thought which has a different view on this and its more like surfing on water than pressure differentials....but thats a whole, 'nother ball of wax........... Roll Eyes  ???
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #24 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 3:58pm

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
also to add, alot of how the air is directed is decided by those canoes on the underside of the wings, i am not sure of the ins and outs of them but i know they play an important part in airflow under the wing when flaps are deployed
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #25 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 4:05pm

Rifleman   Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622
*****
 
Those canoes you speak of are actually the streamlining fairings for the sliding rails which contain the moveable pivot points for the mult-slotted Fowler flaps .....they slide back and pivot down, to do their intended job......
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #26 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 4:39pm

Hagar   Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159
*****
 
Quote:
...and about the miss that Hagar introduced, Deltas use "elevons" not "flaperons".........they control pitch by moving in the same direction and roll by moving in opposite directions........flaperons are ailerons which can be drooped to provide some measure of extra lift in addition to the flaps, while still moving differentially to give the necessary roll control

LOL. You caught me out there. I hang my head in shame.  Roll Eyes

Quote:
I could go on for hours on this one........... Roll Eyes  8)  Wink  Grin

I could also go on for hours. I'll cover the reflex angle for the control surfaces on deltas another time.  Wink
 

...

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery
IP Logged
 
Reply #27 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 4:48pm

Lethal.Ambition   Offline
Colonel
They call me John.
Florida

Gender: male
Posts: 1563
*****
 
GrinThan Grinks for a  Grin the rep Grinlies guys!! Grin I got ever Grinything n Grinow! Grin! And I learned a little extra along the way i Grinn how Conorde don't have flaps, but  Grinuse the del Grinta wing to brak Grine, very  Grincoo Grinl!

Th Cheesyanks again guys, for Cheesy everything! Cheesy
 

Oderint Dum Metuant - Let them hate as long as they fear.&&Proud member of the =XE= Xtreme Eagles&&Oderint Dum Metuant&&
IP Logged
 
Reply #28 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 5:19pm

Rifleman   Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622
*****
 
Quote:
I'll cover the reflex angle for the control surfaces on deltas another time.  Wink

Not just deltas......Most flying wings use some form of "Reflexed" airfoil to aid in "Longitudinal Dihedral"......(pitch stabilization)....whether its from control surface offset or its built into the actual airfoil profile..... Grin  Grin
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #29 - Jul 12th, 2003 at 5:36pm

Hagar   Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159
*****
 
Quote:
Not just deltas......Most flying wings use some form of "Reflexed" airfoil to aid in "Longitudinal Dihedral"......(pitch stabilization)....whether its from control surface offset or its built into the actual airfoil profile..... Grin  Grin

Well, I got myself into enough trouble with deltas & that was only cos Concorde was mentioned. I think AstroGeek is happy now so maybe we'd better leave it there. Given the opportunity, us "barrack room" aerodynamics experts could go on for hours & bore the pants off everyone.  Grin
 

...

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print