Right, a lot of people keep posting about the problems with the handling of the P51D Mustang. The problem is this IT IS A LONG RANGE FIGHTER!!!!!
So it has an extra fuel tank tucked in behind the pilot (scary but true, these guys really did fly them like this, and my hat is off to anyone that did fly them). So if you want Spitfire type dogfighting capabilities, set your fuel level to 40% and that should eliminate the nasty stall characteristics due to the changed CoG.
If you are flying escort missions however, you'll want every last drop of that precious fuel (and this is what the Mustang was for...).
Remember the Mustang had range that no other fighter could really match, the Spitfire was without a doubt the best short range fighter ever made, but the Mustang could go all the way to Germany and back.
Both fabulous aircraft, but comparing them is like comparing a Land Rover and a Ferrari, both are marvelous in their specific enviroment, but chalk and cheese otherwise inspite of their having wings and a single engine apiece.

Ozzy

Give it to us straight, Ozzy.

I don't think ozzy was saying you couldn't fight in it. Only that you can't expect to turn like a spit in it, which is more or less true at 5000 feet fully loaded.
  Course, on the other wing, I don't put to much stock in microsofts rendition of flight models either. I think they've been simplified for use by the genneral public more than anything else.
   At any rate, if your starting off in quick combat with full tanks, your not gonna get the combat performance that the accual pilots remembered probably, as they ussualy burned up some fuel before rondevous with bombers, much less most combat.  Banking and yanking most anything with full tanks is gonna lead to a potential for stalling.

I find 30% fuel gives you optimum performance actually.

Also, shouldn't this be in the CFS FAQ forum? After all thats what its their for. IS THERE A MODERATOR IN THE BUILDING?

Thank you Ozzy.  I couldn't agree more.

ilginc, sasırdım valla ilk defa gördüm ....

I have the proof. In the program of flying legends there was a pilot interviewed who said that when the p-51 was in a heavt fuel configuration it was not terribly responsive and not one of the nicest planes to fly and also it apparantly suffers from pitch control reversal if pushed to hard with heavy fuel load so you have to push down in a turn  Proves all fighters have their problems.

I know but them spits are so gawdamn B-E-Autiful

  Ahhhhhh...... Guys, Don't shoot the messenger (Please Ozzy, I know ya luv your Spit) but I just watched a program on Discovery Wings and only saw part of the program but they (Don't know who they are) picked the best 3 a/c from each decade (and/or War) up to todays modern fighters, then whittled it down to the best a/c for each, then picked the best a/c overall.  It was (Oh God, Please I am only the messenger) lol.   It was the P51 Mustang.  I am waiting for the program to come on again to watch the whole thing and see what criteria was used in the selection.  Anyway, just thought I would let you know.  Please continue to talk to me  lol

"Wings Over The World" is having a program on tomorrow evening on the RAF Spitfire. called the "Elite Fighter During WWII.

Splash

  Whew!!!!   Dodged the bullet on that one!!!!  Yes, I know how prejudiced programming can be, depending on who is doing it.  That is why I want to watch the whole program again to see the Who, What, Where, When, Why and How the selection was made and what criteria used to do so.  I only saw about 30 mins of it and it was an interesting program nonetheless.  Ah, the things you see and hear on the box huh?  lol

Splash 

Discovery wings would go under if they announced a british aircraft as the worlds best.

The problem isn't primarily in the amount of fuel although the 51 did have a requirement to use the tank behind the pilot first.
The problem is in all 3US fighters and it is CG.  1 percent aircraft have a selectable CG adjustment.

The 3US fighters do fly much better with less fuel. Doubt it is weight of fuel. Most likely it is CG.

Sounds like a really cool idea. I'm in...
Dano...

Having got and read an official copy fo Pilots Notes for P-51D. The notes state that fuel from the fusilage tank MUST be used first as the P51 is very unstable in pitch and  NO air combat entered unless absolutely necessary. Ideally the fusilage tank should have no more than 20-25% fuel remaining so that there were no stability problems with the aircraft. Having used the fuel from the rear tank, fuel from the drop tanks was used next etc etc.

Where the Mustang was used in combat with a full tank or near full tank, some pilots found they had to push on the stick to keep in a turning fight with the opposition.

I'm sure Ozzy's analysis is correct.  But I also think the Game is off somewhat on P51D performance.  In any case, you can change the performance by modifying the aircraft.cfg file with a text editor like Notepad.

Open Windows Explorer, click on the CFS3 game folder (wherever you installed it), click on the aircraft folder, click on p_51d.  Create a new folder and call it something like Archieve.  Right click on the aircraft.cfg and copy and paste it to the Archieve folder.  This is to preserve it in original condition.

Now go back and highlight aircraft.cfg.  Double click on it to open it.  You may have to tell windows to use Notepad or some other text editor.

Scroll down to the [flight_tuning] section and find the following lines:

elevator_effectiveness=1.000000
aileron_effectiveness=1.000000
rudder_effectiveness=1.000000

Change the numbers to something greater than 1.0.  I found that numbers between 1.1 and 1.2 work pretty well.

You will find a noticeable improvement in performance.

If you are still having stall problems, you can overcome them by modifying the following in the [piston_engine] section:

cylinder_displacement=137.250000
max_rated_rpm=3000.000000
max_rated_hp=1490.000000

Increase these numbers by 25 - 50 %.  This will give you more HorsePower to overcome stall.  It will also give you a tendency to overspeed so you may have to "work the throttle" to prevent overspeed.

There are many more parameters you can change to alter the plane's charistics and performance.  If you understand airplane design you can play with them but be careful or you'll make the plane totally unrealistic.

All of this is cheating of course but it may make the game more enjoyable for you! 

As far as 'adjusting' config file to correct inherent problems with a plane, I suppose you could do this to correct all of the little 'foibles' of every aircraft in any Sim.

I find that half the enjoyment of Simming is getting to know the strengths and faults of each plane, and overcoming those problems presented, using the methods I've picked up through instruction and experience. (Much the same way the original pilots had to).
As far as I'm concerned, there is much satisfaction in finding I'm able to overcome a 'shortcoming ' in a plane and manage to defeat a superior enemy (in ability and machine), in an environment that the plane I'm flying is not supposed to perform well in. It gives me a thrill, even if I get the crap shot out of me and just make it back to base. 

I know Warbird's suggestions are there for those that wish to go that way, and he's not referring to this sort of thing as a solution to all problems.

Quote:

Ozzy, I want to fight you in my Bf109e in CFS2.

Fully agree with the fact that the P-51 was and still is a good aircraft to fly, but, like all aircraft one has to be carefull with it until you know all of its vices and what you can and can't do with it. Laminar flow wing design and with a rear tank full you encounter a rear C.of G. with all associated problems.

Oh Dear, Warbird................Someone is coming to get you...lol  

He'll be here any minute to tell you that the Hurricane is responsible (far more than the Spit) in defeating the Germans in the BoB. (All I'll say is that he's a Brit)

In fact they did shoot down a considerably larger number of planes.
It seems the Spitfire, as magnificent as it was, is kind of 'ramanticised' and caught the public imagination far more than the Hurricane.
Although I don't think there are very many who would say that the Spit isn't a better 'looking' plane.

(There you go, you don't have to put him straight now, I've done it for you.............. )

As far as the Sim version of the P51 goes. I remember being very disappointed in it, when I first tried it in CFS2 (My first Sim 'game'). I did expect it to be pretty much flawless. I found it did 'turn on a sixpence', but the bleed off in speed when I did so was phenomenal., to the point that it stalled every time I tried to turn sharp to either avoid or catch the enemy.
It wasn't until I saw the Doco, and heard what the WWII pilots had to say, that I realised that (if the Sim was true to reality) I had to get rid of some fuel. When I finally tried that, it lived up to my rather......grandiose expectations.
Strange though. I got CFS1 only 8 months ago, and the P51 in that (it's a 'stock' plane in that Sim) doesn't seem to suffer from the 'bleed off' and stall problem anywhere near as badly as the CFS2 versions. (Or did I just fly it a little better by the time I got CFS1?)  

You'd better be WarbirdJoc, there are several loyalist groups around here who are fanatical about 'their kite', my signature and avatar show my group
But I still enjoying working on others too.

Ozzy

Test

Interesting facts there PlaneFixer, do you have any pictures of this kite at all?

Ozzy 8)

Just found this thread and good reading here. But just wanted to put my opinion in here. The real difference between the P-51 and the Spitfire is the wing. If you equalise the fuel load and the correct the COG problem of the P-51 it still wont be able to turn like the Spitfire. Also the spitfire wont be able to have the range of the mustang. Also thay both share basically the same engine.

I also did happen to see the show mentioned before. There were three catigories there.
1: best fighter
2: best ground attack
3: best bomber
The AC were rated against all ac in the catigory. Eg the P-51 was up agains the FA-18. the catagories were voted upon by leading Ac esperts from around the world including actual pilots of the ac, Designers and historical experts.  It was also not just the Ac's abilities but also it's impact at the time. Hear is the final results.
1: beat fighteer  P-51D
2: best ground attack  P-47
3: best bomber  B-17G

Suprising that all 3 Ac were from WWII.

Just remember there is a little spitfire in every mustang. Both are great planes when used as thay were designed to be used.

Just my opinion without intending to offend anybody.

Its ok to use the WEP in bursts but running over 15 min's destroys the engine.  I've made it home under reduced power several times and have had it crap out completely also after extensive use.  Sick

About the pilots comments on the P-51. 

You really need to know which one they were flying.  At the end of WWII in Europe over 1000 B models out of a total 2500 P-51's were still in frontline service.

The B series up to but not including the -7 did not have the 85gal ferry tank installed.

BEAR - AvHistory

Is it possible to improve preformance of the Mustang by just dropping the drop tanks? This should bring it on par with the Spitfire, maybe not equal or superior but at least on par.

I'm new here so I hope you forgive me if this has been asked and answered.