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Did German planes suck this bad in real life? (Read 3156 times)

Reply #15 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 8:41am

Whitey Offline
Colonel
Scotland

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Posts: 2697

stall - When the wings stops producing lift

Taken from: http://www.aero.hq.nasa.gov/edu/mean.html

Even that Rod Machado guy in the FS2002 lessons says a stall is simply when a wing stops producing lift, not when your airspeed is too low. Although there is a certain speed in level flight where this happens on every aircraft...

I think Whiskey_Zulu is under the impression that a stall happens because your airspeed is too low. That isn't the case.

Whiskey_Zulu: Just to make sure you know...the P-51 can dogfight with one notch of flaps down. It works, I do it all the time. Flaps increase the curvature of the wing and so more lift is produced. 20 degrees of flpad creates more lift, so lowers your stall speed, but it won't cause a considerable drop in your performance.

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Reply #16 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 8:56am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

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I accept that Whitey. My point is, despite all the complex technical explanations, if your airspeed is too low you will fall out of the sky. I guarantee it. Wink

Wink

PS. Aerobatic aircraft like the Extra 300 & Sukhoi SU-26, SU-29 & SU-31 series with a high power/weight ratio can climb vertically or hang on the prop under full control. This is with the angle of attack at 90 degrees to the horizontal. In this case the prop thrust itself is supporting the aircraft, not the wing.

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Reply #17 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:04pm

ViNtAgE FlYa Ex Member

Quote:

in a way it would be very difficult for an F-18 to shoot down a camel:) almost impossible to get a heat seaking lock, a radar lock wouldnt be possible, and guns would be difficult as the stall speed of the hornet has to be faster than top speed of a camel:) all it would have to do is wait for the hornet to over shoot then fire guns quickly certainly would be interesting:)

wohoo!!

Cheesy

Grin

8)

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Reply #18 - Jul 5^th, 2003 at 11:36pm

visitor;AKA:X Ex Member

A camel probably had a radar sign,
about the size of a, belt buckle!!
With the whole engine spining
and no metal in the sturcture,
yea, a belt buckle!!!

X

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Reply #19 - Jul 6^th, 2003 at 1:40am

ViNtAgE FlYa Ex Member

hey, i think the only way to down a sopwith in a F18 is to go low down, and wosh past the camel at the speed of sound!!! Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Undecided

Grin

that will surely put the camel into a stall and flip to the ground
8) 8) 8)

thow i think your not allowed to break the barrier that low....

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Reply #20 - Jul 6^th, 2003 at 1:34pm

Whiskey_Zulu Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 84

Quote:

stall - When the wings stops producing lift

Taken from: http://www.aero.hq.nasa.gov/edu/mean.html

Even that Rod Machado guy in the FS2002 lessons says a stall is simply when a wing stops producing lift, not when your airspeed is too low. Although there is a certain speed in level flight where this happens on every aircraft...

I think Whiskey_Zulu is under the impression that a stall happens because your airspeed is too low. That isn't the case.

I know what causes a stall. I have commerical and instrument airplane ratings for single and multi airplanes in real life.

My point is, in an identical climbing turn--same bank and pitch angles, pulling same G's, starting at roughly the same airspeed, and Fw-190 will be stalling like a one legged cat trying to bury a turd on a frozen pond. Any other airplane in an identical condition stalls at about 100 mph. The Fw-190 will stall at much higher airspeeds--speed approaching 200 mph, as I recall. The AI planes you are behind will make a turning climb. If you attempt to follow in the Fw-190, you will stall. If you attampt to follow in anything else, you will not stall.

And I can do pretty well with a B-f109. Occasionally a Spitfire will get me, if I'm outnumbered 3-1. But it's hard to do well against the Spitfire and Tempest. Those airplanes just outperform the German ones--they are just faster.

Now fly a Spitfire or a Tempest. It isn't even a challenge to shoot down a Fw-190 or Bf-109. You are so much faster, the only thing you have to worry about is running into them.

That's what I'm basically talking about--the British planes are so much faster than the German ones. It's not just me, because in the game, in a dogfight between AI Tempests or Spitfires and AI Fw-190s, the 190s will be blown away every time.

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Reply #21 - Jul 9^th, 2003 at 6:28pm

robbo180265 Offline
Colonel
I didn't do it !
Brighton

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Posts: 10

Without getting too involved in this argument (and belive me the "what causes a stall" thread is a blinder !

My advice to you Whiskey-Zulu is to forget all about the "stock" Microsoft aircraft - that is the ones that came with the game. Most people agree that these are less than realistic.

Instead download the 1% standalone aircraft . These are supposed to perform as realisticialy as possible (within 1% of the original) and they come with better paint jobs as well .

You can find them here , at Avhistory , sim-outhouse

Good luck and (hopefully) happy flying Grin

Grin

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Reply #22 - Jul 9^th, 2003 at 7:26pm

Crumbso Offline
Ground Hog

Posts:

Thats where youre wrong my friend it is all to do with angle of attack. I shall quote the airlaw training book "Stall occurs when the angle of attack of the wing of the aircraft reaches 16 degrees or over" It is just dependant on how much lift a wing can generate at the certain speed which varies with the shape of the wing or the weight or etc...... which then affects the stall speed for each aircraft

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Reply #23 - Jul 9^th, 2003 at 9:21pm

robbo180265 Offline
Colonel
I didn't do it !
Brighton

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For goodness sake - the poor guy is asking for help and all you lot can do is argue over who is right about stalling Angry

Angry

Grow up !

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Reply #24 - Jul 9^th, 2003 at 9:34pm

Smoke2much Offline
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The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,

Posts: 3879

Quote:

like a one legged cat trying to bury a turd on a frozen pond.

I love this quote, can I use it or will you require payment?

Will Wink

Wink

Who switched the lights off? I can't see a thing....... Hold on, my eyes were closed. Oops, my bad...............&&

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Reply #25 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 2:09am

Whiskey_Zulu Offline
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 84

Quote:

I love this quote, can I use it or will you require payment?

Will Wink

Wink

Its from Beavis and Butthead.

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Reply #26 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 5:19am

Whitey Offline
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Scotland

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OK, I had a link once to a M$ site that explained how to fly the aircraft to there limits...helped me a lot with the 190. I'll tey to find it again for you. Wink

Wink

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Reply #27 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 7:30pm

Crumbso Offline
Ground Hog

Posts:

Quote:

For goodness sake - the poor guy is asking for help and all you lot can do is argue over who is right about stalling

Grow up !

oh shutup he already got told an answer.

this is the first time I post in the cfs3 forum and I get told to grow up. I won't be coming here again.

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Reply #28 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 9:39pm

Whiskey_Zulu Offline
Colonel
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 84

Quote:

OK, I had a link once to a M$ site that explained how to fly the aircraft to there limits...helped me a lot with the 190. I'll tey to find it again for you. Wink

Wink

That would be helpful. My basic problem is... I can fly every other plane well, except the Fw-190. Hell, I'm even getting good at dogfighting in medium bombers (against other medium bombers), but I just can't make a "combat" turn in the stock 190's without stalling. The 1% Fw-190D9 still stalls a little quick, but its not nearly as bad as the MS ones.

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Reply #29 - Jul 10^th, 2003 at 10:05pm

Iroquois Offline
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Happy Halloween
Ontario Canada

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Posts: 3244

The stall rate on German planes vs British planes is fairly simple to explain. German planes had a rectangular shaped wing that were very thin. Thin rectangular wings offer good to excellent preformance but at the cost of a nasty unpredictable stall rate. British planes had thicker wings in an oval shape. This type of wing offers excellent preformance as well without the unpredictable stall. Weight also comes into play. Fully loaded, the FW190 can become quite heavy. It now doesn't have a good enough Power to Weight ratio to maintain a steep climb.

To sume up, areodynamics are a lot more than just air producing lift. Different wing shapes can produce differing amounts of lift and preformance. You may wish to search the net or even get a book on areodynamics to get a better understanding. Better yet, get a WW2 pocket guide to aircraft, they list preformance stats, I use them frequently in FS2002 and CFS3 to get climb rates and other information.

I only pretend to know what I'm talking about. Heck, that's what lawyers, car mechanics, and IT professionals do everyday. Wink

Wink

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