Just released some new images of one of the F15's that are in production at I3D.
More Images at www.mnm-fs.com

Just checked out your site......Very nice stuff, so far.......

To be honest with, I really don't think any person with a head over his shoulders will buy it. It does looks great, as usual fro I3D, but with all those new freewares that are gMax or FSDS2 models, I don't think anyone will want to buy from you this high quality product when he can get high quality without any dollar spent.
Just think about it...

Freeware vs. Payware battle...  IMHO, both have their respective place in this industry.  There is no way I would PAY for 3/4 of the aircraft I download for free.  There are some that I am shocked and greatful to get for free and they fill me with awe that someone would do this and just give it away.  There are others who try to sell planes I wouldn't use in FS2k, much less carry over to FS2004.  Then there are those that are payware and have every right in the world to be payware.  Lago's F-16 falls in this class.

Long and short, no one has the right to tell ANYONE they are in the wrong for trying to make a living from something they are pouring their heart and soul into.  Most people with the guts to sell their planes have developed the kind of talent that will sustain them and they deserve to be rewarded, especially since most of them probably have developed many freeware planes on their way up.  That F-15 looks like it'll be pretty nice when it's done.  Given the proper packaging and with variants and maybe some missions, I would buy it in a heartbeat.  On the other hand, if (like some other sites) these people are just trying to sell one plane for $50.00 then forget it.

If you want to buy the thing fine,  buy it and move on.  If you don't want to buy it, then fine too.  But don't make the judgement that people who do are less intelligent because they pay for it.

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I understand you too Julian, but this is a special case....
You see, there is one new freeware F-15 which is extremely excellent.....
I'm talking about the model by Kimitaka Nishida. you got to try it out yourself (the lowest file):

http://www.simviation.com/files/1military/F-15CBaz.zip

There is another model just on top of it of another F-15C and F-15E, but without insulting it's creator, the lower one is a bit better (though it's the best F-15E I ever saw) .
My personal opinion is that a 3D model can't get much better than this, even if they are as good as your models guys...can't remember if it has a VC, but I do know about a great panel you can add to it. I'm sure your model will have a VC, but myself wouldn't buy a payware just for a VC... can't say about the others though...
And julian, what do you mean by saying:

"but perhaps you're not the type of person in our demographics we are seeking and that's OK. "

????

i think Erez is right...there are plenty of HQ planes available...just take a look to the ET from DSB or the Meljet planes...

btw this Strike Eagle looks good too! 

Gentlemen,

You are completing miscontruding in what I meant. What I meant by demographics are the individuals the seeks to experience or relive of flying the aircraft. Like I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of former and current MIL pilots that wanted something in what we're doing in the FS community.

So what are we doing exactly?

Well, here we go:

- The modeling of flight control laws (FLCS) of the CAS/SAS, FBW system

- Proper avionics for the navigational systems. If there's time, we'll divulge even further

- Correct flight dynamics by using aerodynamic and propulsion data that will match the aircraft's flight performance with input from the pilots themselves that fly the aircraft


- the correct HUD for the aircraft.

- correct ramp-up procedures

- and there are more but I won't list them all here.

Our products aren't for the norm and shouldn't be thought of in that fashion.

Our products aren't your typical freeware downloads.

To tell you the seriousness of our products, the upcoming release of our T-37b will be used by the UPT (undergraduate pilots in training) by the USAF. That should tell you how complex our products are.


Julian

PS: by the request of DSB's David Brice, I am in the process of working a flight model for the Typhoon with the input of a Luftwaffe Test Pilot since the release had FM descrepancies.

If this is how people treat developers here at Simviation, I won't bother posting here ever again.

Julian, I think I understand your point. You say that anyone can buy your airplane, but it is meant for peoples who wants to fly the real world Eagle (and can't) and you are supplying them a product which is "as real as it gets".
You got the right and ability to do so.
Don't be so mad at us. I don't question your product and I believe that if all the things you listed above will be there, then it will be one of the most high quality paywares ever.
Alright..... supposed you create this ultimate aircraft (and again, no doubt you won't), how many peoples are out there that were ones pilots and peoples who worked on it and play just this Flight Simulator and will to want to buy this airplane? without geting to numbers, I can tell you.... not much. Definitely not enough for the work you put into it. Again,  my opinion only.
Good luck with it anyway

I think you guys are forgetting something.
when you buy corn, you pay the farmer for the fuel, seeds, water, fertilizer (etc) that he spent his money on, so that you could eat his wonderful corn.

when a modeler spends hundreds of hours surfing the net for info, designing his models, while watching his electric and phone bill rocket, he deserves something in return.

I have never bought a payware model (can't afford it) but it costs so much because of the time and money put into it. getting real sounds means going out and recording them, getting real dynamics means going out and finding the pilots, and getting the accurate shape and paint means finding those high quality 3-views and taking high quality pictures of the real thing.

When you buy FS you buy a platform, a platform for running future aircraft and sceneries. It is by no means a "finished product", that's the beauty of FS, you have an endless amount of posibilities. A product costs 25$ because that's what the modeler needs to cover his costs and makes some extra cash. Back in the days of FS-95 models were simple, so payware was out of the question, but nowadays we want all moving surfaces, full panel, custom gauges, working VC and virtual cabin, compressing spinning tilting and coffee making wheels, we want it all. Getting all that takes time and money.

you don't get your corn for free, don't expect high quality aircraft to be free either.

Boaz (IAFpilot03)

Boaz:  I'm going to disagree again.  The majority of free aircraft are as good as, if not better than, most payware.  Look at Bonzonies B-52H.  Or the Falcon 50, which is just as good as the EagleSoft 400A.

Some people will take only the thanks of others as enough reward for releasing a great freeware aircraft.

Also, look at AVhistory and all the 1% aircraft there.  Everyone of them planes flies as accurately as can be modelled in a sim and they're all free!

As for the sounds, I'm sure anyone who goes to the bother of going to an airfield to record sounds does so because they want to see the plane too.

The DSB Eurofighter is free and it is arguably the best fighter jet for FS2002 right now.  Just because a plane is payware does not make it better than a freeware model.

Jamal:  I see your point too, but I'm a freeware guy and will be sticking to freeware.

I would like to add one thought. I think the amount of free publicity PW groups are getting here is just wrong. They get a lot of benefit from these images being posted everywhere, we're surrounded by what's effectively a commercial, and SimV loses the money they could have charged from these groups. I think it's time to lock out advertisers, if you want to post a preview, post it in a "payware preview" forum.

well..
ok
if it is 5-10 dollars i will get it..
but any more will be over doing it and i will not buy it.
i dont really give a care about the manuals or whatever extra stuff your putting into it
this post should have really been made in the PAYWARE forums

That is a fantastic looking F-15 there...looking very nice already!

Looking through the various replies in this thread have definitely shown the difference in how people view FS Add Ons.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and this one is mine...

Freeware aircraft exist because very talented and generous designers work for endless hours creating the aircraft that will end up in our virtual hangers. The range in quality of Freeware aircraft varies considerably and some designers research their projects extremely well and make some really good aircraft.

HABU - Your F-15C and E (from Lakenheath) aircraft remain in use in my Flightsim to this day because they are really excellent models - I actually consider them superior to the other one available but that is a different story.

Payware is a completely different subject matter. Designers are entitled to some sort of reward for their efforts and this is fair enough. If I3D are going to make an aircraft with all of the kit that is in the list below then it will sure be an aircraft that I will consider worth purchasing. This product is aimed at a particular niche and obviously will not appeal to everyone.

The problem I have had with Payware is with the difference between 2 products from a "certain" company. The first was a Tornado which appealed to me as I have a lot of knowledge of this particular jet. I was deeply unimpressed with this aircraft, a really poor showing from the company who promised it often to be the most realistic version ever. Unfortunately the HUD was wrong, the Flight Dynamics were incorrect as were the loadouts combined with the lack of versions available. Considering the price of the aircraft, this is one example of payware which did not meet standards.

Then the same company released an F-16. This aircraft, with the full panel, massive range of quality textures and realistic loadouts, was simply brilliant and worth the price.

The fact is that there are freeware groups who release very nice aircraft for FS - DSB with the Typhoon and Tornado aircraft really look on form. Once the final versions of both these aircraft are released, then simply put, they will rival and exceed payware developers.

Finally, I will say this.. (and I pose this question to a few of you on this forum who are trying to "pressure" I3D into releasing this potentially fantastic F-15 as freeware.....) .. if DSB released their Typhoon  (in it's current state of course) as payware - would you still consider it the best FS2002 Fighter Jet? (the same goes for any other freeware fighter - such as the Japanese F-15) ...I doubt it....rather I think that this is simply an attempt at persuading Payware developers to releasing their work as freeware.

Is it just me or did everyone here totally miss out on the fact that we offended a person so bad that he won't come back to Simviation? 

Or does no one else care about that?

Hi there again everybody.......

I didnt realise that posting up the shot would cause that much debate. I think this is a debate that could continue for many more pages, but i think in the end nothing would be gained.
We just wanted to show you all what was going on over at our 'workshops'.
The pic also shows one of the new skins that will be available in the B-1 patch that will be freeware, that wee are working on. This particular B-1 carries the 'Lets Roll' noseart.

For Crumbso......

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a 'Reach Out&Touch Someone' or 'Wichita Tunder' would be great too! 

Payware is cool!  Freeware is cool!  Take your pick, you can choose both.  I don't do things for free, so why should anyone else.

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Chris,
the 184th is on my list, there are a few to choose from.
That B-1 in the background is not a multisession flight, its AI.