Simviation Forum - Flight School

Jun 12^th, 2003 at 11:27am

JUSTASEK Guest

I've been flying MSFS for years now, but I've recently decided to actually test my skills by gradually moving through the lessons in 2K2 Pro. I'm really beginning to despise my instructor though, because she keeps failing me on the steep turns section of my checkride. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm 99.9% sure I'm doing them properly, but I don't want to move on to the next rating until I've completed the previous one. Help! ???

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Reply #1 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 11:38am

ozzy72 Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

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The lessons in FS2k2 are completely messed up. My advice is don't bother with them. Just practice and develop your skills on your own, or fly online with someone.

Ozzy

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #2 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 11:44am

JUSTASEK Guest

Phew, I was beginning to think it was me! lol Grin

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Reply #3 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 12:11pm

Rifleman Offline
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" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
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I can't pass one of those tests, ....if you ask me, I'll be the first to admit that a plane is the only vehicle which has its rudder pedals reversed from how you think they should work....if you wonder what I'm talking about, watch the direction your hands move in when you steer a bus, drive a car, take the wheel on a boat, ride a bike, make a kiddie cart with foot steering. etc, etc .....the vector angle between the hands or feet will always indicate a force input on the side of the nose towards the direction of turn and not a pull on the nose leading you though the turn......did I just confuse the issue more ?

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Reply #4 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 4:06pm

liran_bar Offline
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Quote:

I can't pass one of those tests, ....if you ask me, I'll be the first to admit that a plane is the only vehicle which has its rudder pedals reversed from how you think they should work....if you wonder what I'm talking about, watch the direction your hands move in when you steer a bus, drive a car, take the wheel on a boat, ride a bike, make a kiddie cart with foot steering. etc, etc .....the vector angle between the hands or feet will always indicate a force input on the side of the nose towards the direction of turn and not a pull on the nose leading you though the turn......did I just confuse the issue more ?

ummmmm........ yeap! Wink

what you were talking about.... well that is because the vertical wing on a plane is at the rear end while the car's steering wheel is at the front end (I think that's the reason ???), and the airplane's steering wheel is reversed in order to mach the rudder.
(If I am wrong that's a good theory uh?)

Liran Bar, Israel

&&

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Reply #5 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 5:32pm

Rifleman Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622

Let me go a bit further on this one.....
if you ride a bicycle and want to turn left, your left hand moves back toward yourself and the right hand moves away from yourself...result= left turn.
if you are driving a car and want to turn left, you push with your right hand away from your body and pull back with your left towards your body, same for a bus...result=left turn
the plane is the only vehicle we operate which uses the opposite of this directional method of control.....when you want any turn, you move you feet in opposite directions, but not in the same direction as any other vehicle......I have had it explained to me countless times by pilots but they have yet to convince me in a way that can overwrite my upbringing......even the kiddie karts we built as kids had it pretty simple......one foot forward and one foot back, with a perpendicular vector in the direction of intended turn...........Hmmmmmmmmm
I keep making this worse all the time...... Undecided

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Reply #6 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 5:50pm

C Offline
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Earth

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I think the easiest way to explain is that on early aircraft the controls would have been closed wire loops (under tension), ie the rudder bar would be linked to a bar on the rudder, hence pushing with the left foot on the bar would pull the left control horn/bar forward, hence left rudder being applied and vice versa...

I'll draw a diagram if you like...

Charlie

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Reply #7 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 6:49pm

Rifleman Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622

Control runs can be crossed with pulleys....they did have them in those days, in fact the Wrights crossed chains to have two propellers turning opposite directions to cancel torque......and the Wrights were even bicycle makers to boot....they should have known, or they did know and changed it anyway.......airplane rudder pedals for steering could have been made to work in the same direction as bicycle handlebars.....instead, now we have them opposite !

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Reply #8 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 7:09pm

SilverFox441 Offline
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Actually...

When turning a bike the inside hand pushes on the handlebar. The action is so slight that we don't really notice that we are reverse steering. A push to the left results in a weight shift left...and a left turn.

At slow speeds (very slow) the action works like you would reaonably expect.

Makes you wonder though if the Wrights conciously mimiced a bicycle steering arrangement.

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly

&&

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Reply #9 - Jun 12^th, 2003 at 9:42pm

Rifleman Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622

Quote:

Actually...

When turning a bike the inside hand pushes on the handlebar. The action is so slight that we don't really notice that we are reverse steering. A push to the left results in a weight shift left...and a left turn.

At slow speeds (very slow) the action works like you would reaonably expect.

Makes you wonder though if the Wrights conciously mimiced a bicycle steering arrangement.

I totally understand and expected this high speed steering method to be brought to the fore as I use it myself when riding my motorcycle on the hwy, but its not just the low speed bike thing....its the steering on a car or bus that has the same imput, as the low speed bike ?......I guess, what gets me is that when you make a steering motion and notice the hand position, you can take a perpendicular vector to this line an it will lead in the intended turning direction.......Hmmmmm

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Reply #10 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 4:49am

hiflyphil Offline
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Hi, I managed it at last after maybe 50 attempt's Grin

. Get to 2000 ft make sure your level and you've reduced power to 2 thirds. Oh, before you take off I suggest you push the trim wheel forward 10 degrees. Turn gradually into the turn, don't go gungho, and gently pull back, as you get to the 45-50 degree increase power, this is important as its part of the skeet turn manuevour(scuss spelling) as you get to 80 degrees (10 degrees before East) level out and reduce the power back to 2 thirds. It's more important to watch those dials and stay within a hundred feet.
Good Luck
Wink

Tower : Flight 2-0-9er, you're cleared for take off.&&Oever : Roger!&&Murdock : Huh?&&Tower : L.A. departure frequency 1-2-3 point 9er.&&Oever : Roger!&&Murdock : Huh?&&: Re-quest Vector, over!&&Oever : What?&&Tower : 2-0-9er clear for vector 2-3-4.&&Murdock : We have clearance Clarence.&&Oever : Roger, Roger. What's our Vector Victor?&&Oever : That's Clarence Oever! Oever.

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Reply #11 - Jun 17^th, 2003 at 6:30pm

BE58D Offline
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Antioch, California

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I have been flying real planes for almost 12 years now, and have done many steep turns... I still can't pass the damn private checkride!

Remember...
Quote:

If women were meant to fly aircraft, they would call it a Box Office... Not a Cock Pit!

So that woman (checkride) needs to hand in all her of her FAA certifications.
Grin

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