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1066? (Read 3985 times)
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 11:17am
Felix/FFDS
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In a newsgroup, some people were bemoaning the fact that history is largely glossed over, and while many of us have taken history classes, most of the history we know - has been self-taught.
A lot of history is "personal" - example - for me, Nov. 19, 1493 is more important than Oct. 12, 1492.... (Chris landed in PR on his second voyage), but that doesn't mean that I didn't learn about Harold defeating the Vikings in 1066...
So, rather than make this a poll, I'd be interested in an informal survey ...
What do the following years mean to you:
1066
1588
1815
1863
1898
1905
Felix/
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Reply #1 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 11:38am
Rifleman
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1066 is the Battle of Hastings..........
1945 End of WWII..........................
1947 Chuckie went fast..................
1966 Beatles came to America.......
1967 Leafs won their last Cup.......
1969 Manned lunar landing............
1974 birth of my daughter..............
1977 birth of my son......................
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Reply #2 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 11:41am
Hagar
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Without cheating these are only dates I can remember from my schooldays.
1066, the Battle of Hastings _ Norman Conquest of England, where King Harold got a fatal arrow in the eye.
1588, defeat of the Spanish Armada & the legend of Sir Francis Drake having time to finish a game of bowls at Plymouth Ho! after the fleet was first sighted.
These dates were drummed into the brain of every schoolchild in my day. The dates are correct but I'm not sure that either of the legendary events connected with them are actually based on truth. I don't think they go back that far now, in fact WWII is considered ancient history.
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Reply #3 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 12:26pm
Mr. Bones
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'69...WOODSTOCK!
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Reply #4 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 12:56pm
Hagar
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Quote:
'69...WOODSTOCK!
Hmmm. I can think of plenty of dates with some personal significance. I was around in '69 but don't see it mentioned on Felix's list. ???
Quote:
What do the following years mean to you:
1066
1588
1815
1863
1898
1905
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Reply #5 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:05pm
loomex
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1863: President Lincoln was assisinated
1893: maybe the first horseless carriage
Those are the only ones I can think of, and I aint so sure those are even right
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Reply #6 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:11pm
tvale80
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Quote:
1863: President Lincoln was assisinated
1893: maybe the first horseless carriage
Those are the only ones I can think of, and I aint so sure those are even right
um, President Lincoln was assissinated in april 1865
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Reply #7 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:20pm
BFMF
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1066 - Battle of Hastings/Norman conquest. Incidentally, i'm a direct descendant of William the conqueror
1815 - Battle of Waterloo/ final defeat of Napolean
I wasn't sure what happened in 1898, so I looked at a timeline that I did a few years ago and:
Ferdinand Von Zeppelin invented the dirigible airship in 1898
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Reply #8 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:25pm
BFMF
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Quote:
A lot of history is "personal" - example - for me, Nov. 19, 1493 is more important than Oct. 12, 1492.... (Chris landed in PR on his second voyage)
What happened on Nov 19, 1493? You wern't born were you ???
just kidding
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Reply #9 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:29pm
Hagar
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Quote:
that doesn't mean that I didn't learn about Harold defeating the Vikings in 1066...
Would you believe I missed this. My one chance to get my own back on Felix & I blew it. LOL
Harold, King of the the Saxons, did fend off the Viking raiders earlier that year but 1066 is remembered (in this country) for his own defeat near Hastings by William "the Conqueror" of Normandy. This was the last successful invasion of England, hence its significance in our history.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/normans/hastings_01.shtml
The actual location of the defeat was named Battle in honour of the many Saxons who perished.
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Reply #10 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:42pm
RichieB16
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OK, if I remember what Mr. Nuxoll taught me (my favrotie histroy teacher)-here is what I think the dates are:
1066: Battle of Hastings
1588: Spanish Armada defeated
1815: Battle of Waterloo
1863: Battle of Gettysburg & the Gettysburg Address
1898: USS Maine sinks (starts Spanish American War)
1905: I have no idea.
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Reply #11 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 1:53pm
Craig.
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january 22nd 1905, bloody sunday riots/massacre(i believe) in russia was it?
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Reply #12 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 2:33pm
denishc
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Sadly, for those of us who live in the "New" world, much of history doesn't begin until 1492. And if you live in the U.S. the scope is even more narrow than that. Not that the "New" world didn't have a history of its own before that date but that its been lost in a mad and greedy rush for riches.
Not until recently has the histories of the "New" world been painstakingly pieced together. But there are still wide gaps left unfilled and may never be told.
When it comes to history the "Old" world is much more fortunate in having its rich history recorded and save for prosperity.
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Reply #13 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 3:51pm
Mr. Bones
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Quote:
Hmmm. I can think of plenty of dates with some personal significance. I was around in '69 but don't see it mentioned on Felix's list. ???
i know, but i saw it in Rifle's list, so i thought it was alwyas in felix'
and eh...are you drunk hagar?
???
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Reply #14 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 4:10pm
Hagar
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Quote:
i know, but i saw it in Rifle's list, so i thought it was alwyas in felix'
and eh...are you drunk hagar?
???
Not drunk, just in a playful mood.
Despite what you & others might think, I
do
have a (slightly warped) sense of humour.
PS. My comment was a sly poke at Rifle too.
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Reply #15 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 4:54pm
Woodlouse2002
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It seems to me that most of these dates signify british history.
1066 Hastings,
1588 Armarda,
1815 Waterloo.
(All British so far...)
1863 Charge of the light brigade?
1898 Boer wars?
1905 I have no idea!
So how do I score? Do I win a prize? 8)
Andrew, I like the Zeppelin fact.
Hagar, that story about Drake and his game of bowls is true.
What happened in 1905?!
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #16 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 5:08pm
Craig.
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after double checking it in my history books best i could find was the jan 22nd bloody sunday riots in russia
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Reply #17 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 5:10pm
Craig.
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ok further research threw this up
1905 Norway separates from Sweden
1905 Trans-Siberian Railway completed
1905 "Bloody Sunday" massace of protestors in St Petersburg
1905 Sir Albert Einstein develops special theory of relativity
1905 Sinn Fein, Irish nationalist (Republican) movement, founded
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Reply #18 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 5:31pm
Felix/FFDS
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That's why the smilie at the end of the comment..
Quote:
Would you believe I missed this. My one chance to get my own back on Felix & I blew it. LOL
Harold, King of the the Saxons, did fend off the Viking raiders earlier that year but 1066 is remembered (in this country) for his own defeat near Hastings by William "the Conqueror" of Normandy. This was the last successful invasion of England, hence its significance in our history.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/normans/hastings_01.shtml
The actual location of the defeat was named Battle in honour of the many Saxons who perished.
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #19 -
Jun 9
th
, 2003 at 5:37pm
Felix/FFDS
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I was thnking:
Quote:
What do the following years mean to you:
1066 - Hastings
1588 - Spanish Armada defeated
1815 - Batrtle of New Orleans - fought AFTER the end of the "War of 1812"
1863 - Gettysburg
1898 - Invasion of PR by the US during the Spanish-American War ... which incidentally, was spurred on by the accident to the USS Maine (from all accounts, it appears an explosion in its coal stores...)
1905 - Treaty of Portsmouth ending the Russo-Japanese War
Felix/
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Reply #20 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 12:41am
RichieB16
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Here is a historical date that many people seem to not know. Does anyone here know what took place on May 10-20, 1969?
One thing I have noticed is that history classes tend to avoid events such as this and it really bothers me (at least all my classes did).
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Reply #21 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 6:45am
ozzy72
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Was this the first Apollo flight around the moon Richie?
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #22 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 7:49am
Felix/FFDS
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Battle for Ap Bia Mountain in Vietnam "Hamburger Hill" May 10-20, 1969
Quote:
Here is a historical date that many people seem to not know. Does anyone here know what took place on May 10-20, 1969?
One thing I have noticed is that history classes tend to avoid events such as this and it really bothers me (at least all my classes did).
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #23 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 10:43am
BFMF
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Wasn't there a famous hill battle in the korean war where our casualties were very high?
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Reply #24 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 1:08pm
Felix/FFDS
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Given the terrain in Korea, you can almost say "all of them"
Quote:
Wasn't there a famous hill battle in the korean war where our casualties were very high?
Felix/
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Reply #25 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 1:40pm
RichieB16
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Quote:
Battle for Ap Bia Mountain in Vietnam "Hamburger Hill" May 10-20, 1969
Yup, I've heard that it was a horrible battle. My father was there. He said that years later I was suposed to be born on the 20th of May and was very releaved when I was born on the 21st-he didn't want me born during the anniversary of the battle.
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Reply #26 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 2:55pm
ATI_9700pro
Ex Member
Quote:
january 22nd 1905, bloody sunday riots/massacre(i believe) in russia was it?
yeah,i think you're right...
important dates in german history:
Nov 11th 1989...
Oct 3rd 1990...
1870...
1871...
Sept 7th 1949...
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Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 5:06pm
ozzy72
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I think the big battle in Korea you are refering to is the legendary Battle of Gloucester Hill, where numerous Chinese Armies were sent across the Imjin river against the Glousters and the Northumberland Fusiliers regiments who fought a heroic battle and were sacrificed to save the greater allied forces. For a really excellent account of this try reading Lofty Larges One Mans War In Korea (this has been recently released as a compiled edition with his other book One Mans SAS under the title Soldier Against The Odds), and it is an incredible read! A must for any military bookworms.
Published by Mainstream Publishing ISBN 1-84018-346-2
Ozzy
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Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 6:42pm
Iroquois
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10,000-30,000BC- Americas first colonized by Asian migrants.
Late 1600s- Hudsons Bay Company Formed, One of the world's oldest Corporations
1812- US and Canadian war, lasts two years. Canada actually held Detroit after an easy victory.
1763- Royal Proclamation blocks 13 colonies in US from westward expansion and gives full raign to Quebec.
1776- American Revolution
1867- Canada Becomes a Country
1914 - WWI Begins
1918 - WWI Ends
1929- Stock Crash brings on Great Depression
1939- WWII Begins
1945- WWII Ends
1912- Titanic Sinks
1903 - First Powered Flight
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Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 7:33pm
tvale80
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Quote:
10,000-30,000BC- Americas first colonized by Asian migrants.
Late 1600s- Hudsons Bay Company Formed, One of the world's oldest Corporations
1812- US and Canadian war, lasts two years. Canada actually held Detroit after an easy victory.
1763- Royal Proclamation blocks 13 colonies in US from westward expansion and gives full raign to Quebec.
1776- American Revolution
1867- Canada Becomes a Country
1914 - WWI Begins
1918 - WWI Ends
1929- Stock Crash brings on Great Depression
1939- WWII Begins
1945- WWII Ends
1912- Titanic Sinks
1903 - First Powered Flight
um, in 1812 the US and England were at war with each other
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Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 7:37pm
Felix/FFDS
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England was part of Canada at that time ... (according to die-hard Canadians, that is...)
Quote:
um, in 1812 the US and England were at war with each other
Felix/
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Reply #31 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 7:39pm
Scorpiоn
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Quote:
important dates in german history:
Nov 11th 1989...
Oct 3rd 1990...
Dang, dang, dang, dang, dang!
Which one! One of these is the fall of the Berlin Wall, I believe. I'll go with 1990.
The Devil's Advocate.
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Reply #32 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 7:42pm
Iroquois
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Quote:
um, in 1812 the US and England were at war with each other
Although Canada was part of Britain, Canadians did most of the fighting. The US was trying to take over the Canadas. Britian wasn't directly at war with the US but did send military aid.
I only pretend to know what I'm talking about. Heck, that's what lawyers, car mechanics, and IT professionals do everyday.
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Reply #33 -
Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 7:46pm
Scorpiоn
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No, no... I take that back. I'll go with 1989. I remember seeing a poster of it in my German class. I think it said November... 1989, final answer.
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Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 9:10pm
RichieB16
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The Berlin Wall fell in November of 1989. Then two years later the communist rule of the Soviet Union fell on Christmas day, 1991.
Does anyone here know what happened on April 12, 1961?
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Jun 10
th
, 2003 at 9:24pm
Felix/FFDS
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Da, gospodin...
The world's first astronaut was a 27-year-old Soviet aviator named
Yuri Gagarin
. On April 12, 1961, the 43/4-ton spacecraft Vostok 1 was launched at 9:07 in the morning, Moscow time, from a location in Baikonur, a wasteland in the south-central region of the Soviet Union. The spacecraft orbited the Earth once in 1 hour and 29 minutes at a maximum speed of 27,000 kilometers per hour. It followed an elliptical orbit that carried Gagarin as far as 301 kilometers from Earth. Vostok I landed at 10:55 AM and made the young Soviet cosmonaut a worldwide celebrity. Gagarin's flight in Vostok 1 was an astounding achievement that began mankind's entry into space. It was recognized that the Soviet Union had a definite advantage in space technology over the United States. Gagarin was celebrated as a hero in the Soviet Union. Monuments were raised to him and streets named in his honor. He never went into space again.
Quote:
Does anyone here know what happened on April 12, 1961?
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #36 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 12:14am
RichieB16
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Quote:
Da, gospodin...
The world's first astronaut was a 27-year-old Soviet aviator named
Yuri Gagarin
. On April 12, 1961, the 43/4-ton spacecraft Vostok 1 was launched at 9:07 in the morning, Moscow time, from a location in Baikonur, a wasteland in the south-central region of the Soviet Union. The spacecraft orbited the Earth once in 1 hour and 29 minutes at a maximum speed of 27,000 kilometers per hour. It followed an elliptical orbit that carried Gagarin as far as 301 kilometers from Earth. Vostok I landed at 10:55 AM and made the young Soviet cosmonaut a worldwide celebrity. Gagarin's flight in Vostok 1 was an astounding achievement that began mankind's entry into space. It was recognized that the Soviet Union had a definite advantage in space technology over the United States. Gagarin was celebrated as a hero in the Soviet Union. Monuments were raised to him and streets named in his honor. He never went into space again.
Impressive Felix, one of these times I'm gonna stump you. An interesting fact by the way, according to international rules-Gagarin's flight would not have counted as a space flight because he did not land in his capsule (this was kept secret).
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Reply #37 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 2:44am
Rifleman
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overgrown models ! "
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Quote:
I
do
have a (slightly warped) sense of humour.
PS. My comment was a sly poke at Rifle too.
AH yes, but I am unpokeable.......and warped too
8)
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Reply #38 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 8:56am
ATI_9700pro
Ex Member
richie,scorpion,you're right. but no ideas on the other dates??
okay,i'll post the solutions.
1870 - german/french war (not that important at all..)
1871 - proclamation of the german "empire" (deutsches reich)
Sep 7th ,1949 - foundation of the FRG (federal republic of germany) and the GDR (german democratic republic).
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Reply #39 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 9:54am
Felix/FFDS
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The Franco-Prussian War "not important at all"? (note I'm conveniently ignoring the ..) at the end).
This led directly to the consolidation of power of Bismarck and the proclamation of Empire under the Kaiser (the grandfather of the WW1 Kaiser). From there, an "arms race" started as Germany wanted to rush into the colonial race (hence colonies in Africa, participation in the suppression of the Boxer rebellion in China) AND the building of capital ships. England stayed out of coalitions that Germany wanted to make (considering the royal families were related) and the common "enemy" was France - until the French and english divided up their African interests (which pissed off Willly to no end) ... Germany looked to other nations to secure its borders against Russia, France, and was aligned with Austria-Hungary who had their own design in the Balkans ... then a little incident in Sarajevo provoked the Austrians to flex their muscle, make unreasonable demands on the Serbs (which, by the way, were met completely in the hopes of avoiding conflict but the Austrians were hell bent on getting their aims...) Russia came to the Serbs aid, Germany came in behind Austria, France came to the Russian/Serb cause, then when germany moved into Belgium, England honored its agreements....
No, it really wasn't that big a deal...
(By the way, the book "Dreadnought" makes for interesting reading... goes from the end of the Franco-Prussian War to August 1914...
Quote:
richie,scorpion,you're right. but no ideas on the other dates??
okay,i'll post the solutions.
1870 - german/french war (not that important at all..)
1871 - proclamation of the german "empire" (deutsches reich)
Sep 7th ,1949 - foundation of the FRG (federal republic of germany) and the GDR (german democratic republic).
Felix/
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Reply #40 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 10:28am
C
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1812 - Didn't France (Napoleon) have a little spat with Russia then too?
(As well as the Yanks and the Canadians (on behalf of us good old Brits, always disagreeing with someone, dear oh dear))...
Charlie
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Reply #41 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 12:23pm
ATI_9700pro
Ex Member
okay,it was a big event and maybe one cause for WW1, but it wasn't an IMPORTANT event for german history...
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Reply #42 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 1:22pm
Smoke2much
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1905 Russo-Japanese War
1898 ?
1863 ACW
1815 Battle of Waterloo
etc
And Orenda Britain WAS at war with the Colonists in 1812. There was a bit more too it than the Invasion of our Canadian Territories. If I remember correctly we burned down the White House hee hee hee.
And got our arses kicked at sea by USS Constitution and others. Not so hee hee hee
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Reply #43 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 1:58pm
RichieB16
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okay,it was a big event and maybe one cause for WW1, but it wasn't an IMPORTANT event for german history...
Actually, I tend to think of the Franco-Prussian War as one of the most important events in German history because it started a very critical chain of events. Following the war, the peace treaty said that Germany got to take over part of France-an area known as Alsace-Lorraine-they also had to pay harsh war reparations. This caused the German and French relations to be even worse than before and can be contributed as a major reason that France was so quick to enter WWI-they wanted "revanchism" (punish a past enemy and regain lost terriroty). WWI was fought and France and her allies won. Following the war, at the Paris Peace conference the Treaty of Versailles was created and Germany forced to sign (the harshness of the treaty was partially caused by France's desire for revenge-this included the return of Alsace-Lorraine). Now, years later there was a man who managed to rise to power in Germany because he hated how is country had been treated following WWI. That man's name was Adolf Hitler. Hitler, as everyone knows, was the sole cause of WWII. After WWII, Germany was devided into four parts (as was the capitol city of Berlin)-one for each of the victorious natins (U.S., France, Britain, & USSR). The plan was to reunite in 1949 after each part had been rebuilt by the nation-in 1949 one counrty refused to allow their part to be united with the rest of Germany (the USSR's sector), thus East Germany was born and so was all that followed (specifically the Berlin Airlift and Wall).
Had the Franco-Prussian War not occured the rivalery between France and Germany would never had been as bad WWI may have been avoided (unlikely). What is more likely is that the treaty following the war would not have been as harsh and Hitler would not have had the fuel he needed to cease control of the country and try and create an empire (and cause WWII). Therefore WWII and all the followed probably wouldn't have happened. The Franco-Pussian War, though less than a year in length, was a very critical part of German history.
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Reply #44 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 4:07pm
Smoke2much
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I think that the Franco-Prussian war was a critical part of World history, not just German history. Not only for the reasons that Richie has written but also from a purely tactical military point of view. The FP war was fought with the Prussians using "Needle Guns" which were an early form of quick firing rifle arm. For this reason the French were cut down in vast numbers . It can be argued that if the Junior officers in the French and Imperial Prussian armies had learnt the lessons from the battles that they saw first hand then the blood bath of WWI would possibly have been vastly different as the 16 year old Ensigns in 1870 were the 60 year old generals in 1914.
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Reply #45 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 5:17pm
Woodlouse2002
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Ok lads lets try this one out. Remember, NO cheating.
Now heres a clue. There all great navy dates.
1588,
1805 (21 october),
1898,
1904,
1915 (24 january),
1916 (31 may),
1918,
1939 (13 december),
1941 (23 may),
1941 (25 may),
1943 ( 26 december),
So there you go. I shall write my answers either later tonight or tomorrow. Good luck!
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #46 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 7:03pm
RichieB16
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I have one date to add Woody, what happened on April 21, 1918?
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Reply #47 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 7:30pm
Felix/FFDS
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1588, Spansih Armade defeated
1805 (21 october), Lord Nelson killed by sniper
1898, Battle of Santiago, Cuba (Spanish American War) (Yes, Manila Bay was also fought that year)
1904, Attack by japanese at Port Arthur
1915 (24 january), Battle of Dogger Bank
1916 (31 may), Battle of Jutland
1918 - WW1 ended, but British and Japanese landed troops in Valdivostok.
1939 (13 december), Battle of Rio Plata - Graf Spee scuttled
1941 (23 may), - 1941 (25 may),
23-27 May 1941 - Battle of Denmark Straights - HMS Hood sunk 24May, pursuit follows, Bismark sunkj 27-May
1943 ( 26 december), Battle of North Cape - Scharnhost sunk
Felix/
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Reply #48 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 7:33pm
Felix/FFDS
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An Australian machine gunner had good aim and killed a German pilot.
Quote:
I have one date to add Woody, what happened on April 21, 1918?
Felix/
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Reply #49 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 8:59pm
RichieB16
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An Australian machine gunner had good aim and killed a German pilot.
Wow, once again you are right. But, I wouldn't say that it was just a German pilot-it was possibly the most famous pilot in history, the infamous Manfred von Richthofen aka the "Red Baron."
By the way Felix anther related event on 4/21/1918 is that Canadian ace Arthur Roy Brown lied.
OK then, what happened on:
April 24, 1967?
June 29, 1971?
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Reply #50 -
Jun 11
th
, 2003 at 9:38pm
John Stevens
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10AUG1815 Royal Decree of Grace
1863 The pilgramage of Bayoan by Eugenio Maria de Hostos
1898 The PR claims independance from Spain, is captured by the US and made a territory of US ending Spanich colonialism in Western Hemisphere. Big year for PR
1905 The original Coat of Arms of PR was adopted.
That the best I can recall from history
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Reply #51 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 9:56pm
Stegahorse
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1066 would seem to hve something to do with the Moors and El Cid
1588 The defeat of the Spanish Armada
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Reply #52 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 9:56pm
SilverFox441
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We can only assume that the Aussie MG gunner had fallen out of a plane?
The fatal shot came from above and to the left of Richtofen's Tripe...not a good spot for anybody but Roy Brown...the person who is officially credited with the kill. Earlier claims that the bullet came from below have been discounted as better forensic science makes bullet wounds better understood.
As for Brown lying, that's a load of BS.
Brown never claimed to have shot down Richtofen. He claimed, through normal procedures, to have shot down a Fokker Tripe at a specific location. After investigation it was determined that he had shot it down and it was Richofen's.
The only lie I've ever seen associated with that event is a claim that one of the Aussie gunner's had stated that he and his mates had shot down Richtofen. The claim was made by an Aussie museum. The gunner involved clearly, and repeatedly, stated that he hadn't even seen a Fokker Tripe at low altitude near their gun position that day.
If you want to sully the name of a VC winner...how about doing it with facts and not snide accusations?
Steve
(Silver Fox)
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Reply #53 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 10:10pm
RichieB16
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Actually, there was recently a very indepth study on the events which led to the death of Manfred von Richthofen. It turned out that he was killed by a machine gunner on the ground, not Roy Brown (or Snoopy-lol). That mans name was Snowy Evans-a lowely Australlian gunner of whom no photos exist, he was not killed by the famous Roy Brown.
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Reply #54 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 10:37pm
Felix/FFDS
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Not bad for going from memory... if mine serves me right, PR had just been granted self-government in 1898, as a step towards - some thought independence, others wanted full incorporation as a full Spanish province ... seems that 105 years later, nothing has changed, only the "colonial" power...
Quote:
1898 The PR claims independance from Spain, is captured by the US and made a territory of US ending Spanich colonialism in Western Hemisphere. Big year for PR
Felix/
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Reply #55 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 11:12pm
SilverFox441
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My bad.
Brown won the DSC not the VC.
How did Snowy Evans...an assistant gunner get the kill?
Revisionist history.
Buie, the actual gunner, is the fellow who said he didn't shoot the Baron. Therefore a "new" study suddenly claims his assistant, who wasn't on the gun, got the kill.
Facts are facts.
The fatal shot came from behind.
The plane crashes only some 80 yards from the Aussie gun position.
Brown had overshot low and the the right after his first burst.
There is only one thing that makes sense.
Brown killed the Baron...and revisionist history be damned.
If an Aussie gunner got the baron he must have been sitting on the cowling of Brown's Camel. Neither Brown nor any other observer reports such a man.
Steve
(Silver Fox)
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Reply #56 -
Jun 11
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, 2003 at 11:29pm
Felix/FFDS
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The Toronto Star printed an article that indicates researchers from the Discovery Channel, reached the conclusion that Roy Brown was firing from the wrong angle/side and concludes that it was an Australian gunner - not necessarily Snowy..... However, the same article also cautions that the actual "whodunnit" may never be fully resolved. The Discovery Channel came to its "conclusion" using 3D modelling (although it beats me how the various paths of several airplanes could be accurately tracked if no film record/evidence was made at the time), BUT another 'expert' on the matter concluded that the Channel made the correct determination for the wrong reasons. Finally, it is my understanding that Brown claimed to have shot at a Triplane that went down vertically, whereas the Richtofen Triplane came down in a semicontrolled landing (ie , not vertical)
I do not believe that Roy Brown was actually credited with the kill, but that the history books - for the most part - recognize him as the one who fired the fatal shot.
Felix/
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Reply #57 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 12:48am
SilverFox441
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That Discovery Channel bit has caused a lot of heartache for many people...
The historian working with them says they had a chance to do some real work and they didn't do it. He went on to say they ignored evidence on both sides of the controversy.
Brown never claimed he shot down that specific aircraft. He did claim he shot down a dominantly red Triplane at that location...or very close nearby. In one of those strange twists Brown kill totals reflect the Tripe kill...but he is not officially credited with the kill of MvR.
The only official document that reflects Brown shot down MvR is a report by an Aussie Army officer!
Steve
(Silver Fox)
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Reply #58 -
Jun 12
th
, 2003 at 2:11am
visitor
Ex Member
I'm not much on history, but this tread
got me started looking around and I
found this, as to old and new world
This one goes way back,
Check it out!
http://www.johnowensmith.co.uk/histdate/
X
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Reply #59 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 5:00am
Smoke2much
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It is a well known historical fact that the Red Baron was abducted by Aliens who left a fake corpse behind to confuse us for 90 years. Von Richthofen is currently living with Elvis, they run a small bar together in Des Moines.
Will
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Reply #60 -
Jun 12
th
, 2003 at 5:27am
ozzy72
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Will are you sure Elvis is in Iowa? I heard he was working in Tescos in Nottingham! You know the one Lord Lucan is manager of....
Apparently Emilia is one of the checkout chicks.....
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #61 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 6:17am
Felix/FFDS
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This should settle any controversy for once and for all ...
legends never die - they get abducted by aliens...
Quote:
It is a well known historical fact that the Red Baron was abducted by Aliens who left a fake corpse behind to confuse us for 90 years. Von Richthofen is currently living with Elvis, they run a small bar together in Des Moines.
Will
Felix/
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Reply #62 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 7:14am
Woodlouse2002
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Well Felix you almost won a cookie! Heres what I had in mind for the answers...
1588, Spanish Armarda.
1805 (21 october), Battle of Trafalgar.
1898, Sinking of the USS Maine (I included this one just for you yanks!)
1904, Battle of Tsushima. (First naval battle with modern battleships. The Japanise report led to the creation of Dreadnaught.)
1915 (24 january), Battle of Dogger Bank (Prelude to Jutland.)
1916 (31 may), Battle of Jutland (Clash of the titans. (Now tell me, who won this fight?)
1918, Launching of the HMS Hood. (How could you miss that one?
)
1939 (13 december), Battle of the River Plate. (Graf Spee Scuttled 3 days later.)
1941 (23 may), Hood and Prince of Wales attack Bismark and Prinz Eugan in the Denmark strait. Hood sunk, Bismark and Prince of Wales damaged.
1941 (25 may), Bismark sunk in Bay of Biscay by british capital ships, Rodney and King George V. Also cruiser Dorsetshire participated.
1943 ( 26 december), Battle of North Cape, German Cruiser Scharnorst sunk but HMS's Duke of York, Belfast and Jamaica. (Jamaica was credited with the kill of the Scharnorst as it was thought her torpedos caused her to sink.)
So there you are.
Even Felix got some wrong.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #63 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 7:54am
Smoke2much
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Quote:
Will are you sure Elvis is in Iowa? I heard he was working in Tescos in Nottingham! You know the one Lord Lucan is manager of....
Apparently Emilia is one of the checkout chicks.....
No Ozzy, Ms Monroe and Ex President Kennedy refused to allow a German to work with them. Lucan was happy enough, but he was out-voted.
I have heared that they are forming a conglomerate and going into the cruise business. They have bought their first ship -
SS Marie Celeste
Will
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Reply #64 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 10:07am
Felix/FFDS
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Other than HMS Hood (1918-1941) I think I called the rest... Remember - it had been stated in one of the previous posts that investigation determined that the Maine was sunk by an internal explosion, not "enemy action" - as for 1918 - check it out - what I stated still stands... the Brits and Japanese landed troops in Vladivostok in fighting against the Bolsheviks.
Battle of Jutland - Germans won -tactically. The strategic victory went to the Brits, since the Germans never ventured out in force after that.
Quote:
Well Felix you almost won a cookie! Heres what I had in mind for the answers...
1588, Spanish Armarda.
1805 (21 october), Battle of Trafalgar.
1898, Sinking of the USS Maine (I included this one just for you yanks!)
1904, Battle of Tsushima. (First naval battle with modern battleships. The Japanise report led to the creation of Dreadnaught.)
1915 (24 january), Battle of Dogger Bank (Prelude to Jutland.)
1916 (31 may), Battle of Jutland (Clash of the titans. (Now tell me, who won this fight?)
1918, Launching of the HMS Hood. (How could you miss that one?
)
1939 (13 december), Battle of the River Plate. (Graf Spee Scuttled 3 days later.)
1941 (23 may), Hood and Prince of Wales attack Bismark and Prinz Eugan in the Denmark strait. Hood sunk, Bismark and Prince of Wales damaged.
1941 (25 may), Bismark sunk in Bay of Biscay by british capital ships, Rodney and King George V. Also cruiser Dorsetshire participated.
1943 ( 26 december), Battle of North Cape, German Cruiser Scharnorst sunk but HMS's Duke of York, Belfast and Jamaica. (Jamaica was credited with the kill of the Scharnorst as it was thought her torpedos caused her to sink.)
So there you are.
Even Felix got some wrong.
Felix/
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Reply #65 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 12:25pm
ozzy72
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Yeah I heard about that Will. I've brought shares in it as they have a great non-refund policy to disatisfied customers, they just err loose them
Which saves me from having to give any of the money back....
Mark 8)
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Reply #66 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 1:19pm
RichieB16
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OK then, what happened on:
April 24, 1967?
June 29, 1971?
Does anyonwe know?
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Reply #67 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 1:50pm
Rifleman
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overgrown models ! "
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Quote:
Does anyonwe know?
April 24 1967 I was planning a 20th b'day party for my older brother, for the 29th....thats when I heard about Komarov.
June 29 1971 we were all still recovering from my 20th b'day, 6 month s earlier.....
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Reply #68 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 6:04pm
ozzy72
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Its a pity I wasn't conceived at the time of your 20th Ken, it sounds exactly like my kind of bash!
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #69 -
Jun 12
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, 2003 at 6:19pm
Felix/FFDS
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April 24, 1967 - Siege of Khe Sahn starts...?
June 29, 1971 - Illinois ratifies 26th Ammendment to the US Constitution providing the right to vote for US citizens 18 years of age or older....
Quote:
Does anyonwe know?
Felix/
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Reply #70 -
Jun 13
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, 2003 at 10:14pm
RichieB16
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Actually, I was refering to historys first 2 spaceflight disasters. Both were Soviet voyages which resulted in the crews deaths-Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11.
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Reply #71 -
Jun 14
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, 2003 at 5:27am
Hagar
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Quote:
Actually, I was refering to historys first 2 spaceflight disasters. Both were Soviet voyages which resulted in the crews deaths-Soyuz 1 and Soyuz 11.
I think this demonstrates Felix's original point perfectly.
Quote:
What do the following years mean to you:
The same date often has a different significance to different people, depending on where they live.
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Reply #72 -
Jun 14
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, 2003 at 6:19pm
RichieB16
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Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Actually, I was unaware that those events happened on those dates-well I guess ya learn something new everyday.
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Reply #73 -
Jun 15
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, 2003 at 6:27am
ATI_9700pro
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the soviets had no luck with their space flight program,athough they shot the first man ,sattelite and the first woman into space.
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Reply #74 -
Jun 15
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, 2003 at 11:26am
Felix/FFDS
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... and the first space station ...
Quote:
the soviets had no luck with their space flight program,athough they shot the first man ,sattelite and the first woman into space.
Felix/
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Reply #75 -
Jun 15
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, 2003 at 7:50pm
RichieB16
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Actually, the Soviets had (and the Russian's continue to have) a very successiful manned space program. They also had the first space walk, first mulit-manned crew, and have logged many more days in space than their American counterparts. Also, during this time-they have lost far less men than the American's (the U.S. have lost 14 during space flights while the Russian's have lost only 4). The only great feat they did not have in space was a manned moon landing, they were first in almost everything else.
Quote:
... and the first space station ...
Interestingly, the crew lost on June 29, 1971, was their first space station crew (the first station crew in history). The Soyuz 11 crew was the first and only of the space station Salyut 1.
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Reply #76 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 2:46am
BFMF
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Quote:
Interestingly, the crew lost on June 29, 1971, was their first space station crew (the first station crew in history). The Soyuz 11 crew was the first and only of the space station Salyut 1.
If you ever watched the movie 'Armegedon' with Bruce Willis and Ben Aflek, you'll get an idea why
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Reply #77 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 7:47am
Felix/FFDS
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EEP - action movies are not necessarily themost accurate historical depictions.... (but they are fun)
Quote:
If you ever watched the movie 'Armegedon' with Bruce Willis and Ben Aflek, you'll get an idea why
Felix/
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Reply #78 -
Jun 16
th
, 2003 at 9:11am
ATI_9700pro
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Quote:
Actually, the Soviets had (and the Russian's continue to have) a very successiful manned space program.
...but the unmanned space program wasn't very successful.
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Reply #79 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 9:38am
Felix/FFDS
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???? Isn't this a contradiction in terms?
#1 - How do the space stations get resupplied? Mostly by unmanned supply capsules
#2 - How many Russian satellites are still "up there" ..
Granted, Western commercial and military uses of unmanned satellites are much more publicized, but I wouldn't call the Soviet/Russian unmanned program "unsuccessful" ... I'd rather say that the Western space programs have, in general, been "more productive"...
Quote:
...but the unmanned space program wasn't very successful.
Felix/
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Reply #80 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 9:57am
ATI_9700pro
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okay,my fault. i'm talking about the mars and lunar probes.okay?
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Reply #81 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 10:44am
Felix/FFDS
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The ones that go "splat" ?
Even then, the Russian probes were better - they made bigger craters ;>
Quote:
okay,my fault. i'm talking about the mars and lunar probes.okay?
Felix/
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Reply #82 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 11:46am
SilverFox441
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I'm not sure I'd take the Soviet numbers for granted...there have been persistant rumours of as many as 30-40 others killed during flight operations.
As for probes...many Soviet firsts exist in the probe field. Take a look at the Luna probe series and the Venus explorations. Not all ground-breaking Soviet probes actually broke the ground.
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Reply #83 -
Jun 16
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, 2003 at 7:51pm
RichieB16
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okay,my fault. i'm talking about the mars and lunar probes.okay?
It's true that the Russian's have had some problems with probes in the past but they have also had some great success. For example, in the mid-1970s the Russian's made several very successiful unmanned lunar landings which resulted in sample returns. These missions were extremely successiful in accomplished virturally every objective they had. Overall, I can't say that their unmanned programs were any less successiful than that of the United States.
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Reply #84 -
Jun 17
th
, 2003 at 7:52am
ATI_9700pro
Ex Member
wasn't there a bad ground accident with a soviet rocket?? i think,it killed over 200people when it exploded.
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Reply #85 -
Jun 17
th
, 2003 at 8:20am
Felix/FFDS
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FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL
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There have been several - most notably in the early '60s when testing of the (then) largest ICBM prototype went seriously worng and wiped out a large number of people, including the head of the Strategic Rocket Forces (I may have the title wrong)
Usually US/Western rocket unmanned rocket failures have not caused (significant numbers of) casualties.
Quote:
wasn't there a bad ground accident with a soviet rocket?? i think,it killed over 200people when it exploded.
Felix/
FFDS
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