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Boeing 707? (Read 4056 times)
Apr 30th, 2003 at 4:27pm

Rivers   Offline
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I suggested a new forum and Pete told me to try it first to see if it works.

Here is the idea:
Quote:
I bet there is an enormous amount of information about aviation in the minds of the users of this forum so we could have a forum were every month a user or moderator would randomly select an aircraft and everyone could tell what they know about it.


Ok so the first one will be the Boeing 707 tell everything you know freely
« Last Edit: May 9th, 2003 at 9:38am by pete »  

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Reply #1 - Apr 30th, 2003 at 4:48pm

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The last new build 707 airframes that came off the Boeing production line were the RAF's E3Ds
 

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Reply #2 - Apr 30th, 2003 at 5:22pm

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OK...the KC135 is NOT a military version of the 707. The dash 80 was a prototype aircraft that Boeing was making with the hope the military would buy it. The 707 is actualy bigger than the 135.  The E-3 AWACS is in fact a modified 707.
The reason I know this is that me and a friend had a friendly discussion with a boom operator on a KC-135. He insisted the plane was a 707 that was converted. It took a 135 pilot to shove a book into the kids face to prove him wrong

I think that this is a great idea. First one can get a load of info about a plane, and maybe staighten out misinformation.
Chris
 

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Reply #3 - Apr 30th, 2003 at 8:53pm

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Quote:
Posted by: BR_ Posted on: Today at 5:27pm
I suggested a new forum and Pete told me to try it first to see if it works.

Here is the idea:



I think this is a great idea!
Dave  Wink
 

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Reply #4 - Apr 30th, 2003 at 11:37pm

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There are two military version of the offspring of the Dash 80.

First is the workhorse C-135 (better known in it's KC-135 version). This is a slightly smaller an narrower version that is more in keeping with the original.

The second version is the C-137 (better known as the B707). The old AF One was a VC-137 and the Canadian Armed Forces planes were all CC-137's.

The extra fuselage width allowed for two extra seats and was made at the request of teh airlines. Smiley
 

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Reply #5 - May 1st, 2003 at 9:07am
ATI_9700pro   Ex Member

 
my favourite 707 is the 120b.
and it was the basis for many other planes ,like the 727 or the 737.
 
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Reply #6 - May 1st, 2003 at 11:53am

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Wasn't the original Airforce One a 707? I'm not sure as at my age most of the braincells are dead or in hiding!

Ozzy ???
 

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Reply #7 - May 1st, 2003 at 1:13pm

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Quote:
Wasn't the original Airforce One a 707? I'm not sure as at my age most of the braincells are dead or in hiding!

Ozzy ???


they must be just hiding, cuz you are right
 

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Reply #8 - May 1st, 2003 at 3:11pm

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Quote:
Wasn't the original Airforce One a 707?

I think that might have been the second Presidential airliner. Wasn't there a DC-3 or other radial prop before the 707 ???
 

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Reply #9 - May 1st, 2003 at 9:08pm

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A Boeing 707 served as Air Force 1 for 28 years.  I think it spent a longer time as Air Force 1 than any other plane, it's career ended during the Regan administration.  Here's a bad picture (the best I could find) that shows it in this function.

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Reply #10 - May 1st, 2003 at 11:56pm

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I don't have alot of specific info on particular planes (but each day the file gets larger), thanks to this forum and the minds herein.
A good idea BR. Hope to see the Forum sub-heading.

A simple fact as far as I know is the 707 was the first commercial jetliner ever. (Courtesy of the History Channel which I could not do without. Sometimes the simple facts are more interesting, and important than the technical and involved ones..............lol Grin)

Also courtesy of the History Channel. There was definitely an Air Force One before the 707. I recall seeing both Truman and Ike alighting from one in the Special Doco about the same plane and its' history.
(I'm not sure it was named Air Force One but it was a plane specially reserved for Presidential use only).  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #11 - May 2nd, 2003 at 12:33am
Oso   Ex Member

 
Coulda swore that the Brits had a jet liner first - it crashed and there was scandal - so they took it out real quick - or something like that - the one with the 2 jet engines in each wing root I think. Meteor maybe?

Just did a quick search - Comet was the first large commercial jet airliner - and she was a Brit. Predecessor to the Nimrod.

Just saw a bunch of pics of the Nimrod - man that is one You-gly plane. Glad I wasn't trying to eat when I saw that. Shocked
 
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Reply #12 - May 2nd, 2003 at 1:49am

Rivers   Offline
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Yes the comet was the firs commercial jet liner and its crashes were caused by stress in the fuselage because of its big windows and pressurization. I think the 707 was the first presidential airplane that was a flying white house and called Air Force One, also there is the first prototype that is in a museum somewhere called the Dash 80.
If I’m not wrong, it is the most tested aircraft in the world it first rolled out on May 14/1954. Boeing would not exist today if the 707 wasn’t successful because the company funded the project with everything they’ve got. I’m not sure but I think Boeing was trying to reach the commercial market with a jet a/c although there was a trauma left by the comet, but the military asked for a jet tanker because refueling jet fighters and bombers with the old piston a/c was dangerous and the liked the 707 and asked for a tanker version.
I know this stuff because I used to watch a program named wings on the Discovery Channel it was old but very good.
 

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Reply #13 - May 2nd, 2003 at 2:02am

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Seems my History Channel info is not exactly correct.
Sorry people, but it's not the first time.

History Channel have probably taken the phrase "first SUCCESSFUL" jetliner" and used some license.

I've come across this before. I have them on tape (of course) with regard to most of the assersions I make, and attribute to them. (I tape all the Aircraft and WWII episodes, when I can).
Another instance that comes to mind, which Hawker is aware of. They clearly state in a promotion of an upcoming Doco of the P38, that it was "responsible for shooting down the most aircraft in WWII". It turns out in the program itself, they "adjust" this with the phrase "most JAPANESE aircraft in WWII".

I should learn to be more careful of their EXACT meaning...............lol Grin

Thanks for the corrected info.    Grin Wink
 

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Reply #14 - May 2nd, 2003 at 2:30am

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I like the idea of an aircraft theme every month! Smiley
 
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Reply #15 - May 2nd, 2003 at 2:32am

Rivers   Offline
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Quote:
Seems my History Channel info is not exactly correct.
Sorry people, but it's not the first time.

History Channel have probably taken the phrase "first SUCCESSFUL" jetliner" and used some license.

I've come across this before. I have them on tape (of course) with regard to most of the assersions I make, and attribute to them. (I tape all the Aircraft and WWII episodes, when I can).
Another instance that comes to mind, which Hawker is aware of. They clearly state in a promotion of an upcoming Doco of the P38, that it was "responsible for shooting down the most aircraft in WWII". It turns out in the program itself, they "adjust" this with the phrase "most JAPANESE aircraft in WWII".

I should learn to be more careful of their EXACT meaning...............lol Grin

Thanks for the corrected info.    Grin Wink


There is no problem in saying something incorrect here Wink this post is educational and no one learns anything without making some mistakes, I’m not sure if everything I said is correct too but if its note I hope someone corrects it.

Keep it coming guys. Grin
 

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Reply #16 - May 2nd, 2003 at 4:27am

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i like the idea very much. every month a new plane...can't wait untill we talk about bombers  Wink
 

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Reply #17 - May 2nd, 2003 at 8:49am

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is it time for a new one already?

About the Tu-154, there is a rumout that every part is made in such a way that it only fits in the intended place and nowhere else... to keep the production going after the afternoon break.
 

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Reply #18 - May 2nd, 2003 at 11:52am
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WinkFirst "AF1" was a USAF C-54 (DC-4) nicknamed "Sacred Cow."  It was put together for FDR, used by Truman and Eisenhower.
 
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Reply #19 - May 2nd, 2003 at 11:44pm
Oso   Ex Member

 
I remember Ike getting off of a 4 prop'r - and seeing footage of Truman - I was thinking maybe a Connie - but now that you mention it - I think you are right - DC4

MY GOD!!! I remember when Ike was President! I am old! Fozzer! How do I deal with this?



BTW - the Air Force One 707 discussed earlier - was the same that carried Kennedy's body to Washington - and used for many years after that - I think maybe it is still in reserve and was called up by Bubba or Poppa George once when the 747 went off the runway or something like that.
 
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Reply #20 - May 3rd, 2003 at 3:01pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
I remember Ike getting off of a 4 prop'r - and seeing footage of Truman - I was thinking maybe a Connie - but now that you mention it - I think you are right - DC4

MY GOD!!! I remember when Ike was President! I am old! Fozzer! How do I deal with this?



BTW - the Air Force One 707 discussed earlier - was the same that carried Kennedy's body to Washington - and used for many years after that - I think maybe it is still in reserve and was called up by Bubba or Poppa George once when the 747 went off the runway or something like that.


How old would that make the 707 used by Kennedy? Was it he who commissioned it? (That would make it around 42 - 43 years old).

P.S. Re your reference to "Bubba or Poppa", Oso. I think I've asked this once before. What is it about the American media that has them incessantly calling the President George "DOUBLE YOU" Bush. We all know who they mean, for for God's sake. Do they think we are all idiots and don't know that the "Mr Bush" they would be speaking of in regard to current matters would be "the younger".
Just personally, it annoys the crap out of me to continually hear him referred to in this "elongated" fashion.
I suspect he is probably peeved occasionally, when he sees he is continually referred to "in deference" to his father.  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #21 - May 3rd, 2003 at 4:02pm

pete   Offline
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well - looks like it's working!

OK - next question - where do we put this - what heading & what sub heading>

I can't be expected to come up with all the ideas guys.. !! Smiley

I love it when someone else does - but I also need you guys to tell me what to do with this one...

Surely it's gotta be under Real Aviation?
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Reply #22 - May 3rd, 2003 at 4:04pm

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how about general aviation??
 
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Reply #23 - May 3rd, 2003 at 9:45pm

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Quote:
Ok so the first one will be the Boeing 707 tell everything you know freely


Depending on how its outfitted inside, its either a bus or a truck..........definately not a sporty cruiser or family sedan........  Grin
 

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Reply #24 - May 3rd, 2003 at 9:54pm

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Quote:
how about general aviation??


How about under Real Aviation section with a new section called Aircraft of the week. Each entry should have only the name of the plane ex...Boeing 707.  Rules should say just only  info, myths and facts about that plane and no opinions. That seems to attract long debates way off the subject. 
I love a good debate, but it wouldn't work well in this section.

Of course This is just one persons idea. Grin
 

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Reply #25 - May 3rd, 2003 at 10:54pm
Oso   Ex Member

 
Bubba is Clinton. The reason the media does that "Dubya" thing is part and parcel of the liberal philosophy - which the media is a backer of - you are not smart enough to think on your own - you can not make decisions on your own - especially regarding your well being and welfare of your family - since you are that stupid we must put a tag on "Dubya" so youins 'll know who we be talkin bout.

It is also an insult. About like calling Bush "Forest Gump". That is why I call Clinton "Bubba" - same insult.  Grin

So it just boils down to nuances of American politics. That is why the conservatives among us take offence at the "Bush is dumb" jokes - it started as a means to discredit him in the election - it is far from true. But the liberals still use it - they cannot beat him on a debate of the issues so they badmouth him - call him stupid and a draft dodger - Hmmmm - Wasn't it ok with them that Clinton was a draft dodger - but not ok for Bush? Hmmm

BTW - Bush wasn't  - it was more hooey fabricated by the media to influence the election.

 
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Reply #26 - May 4th, 2003 at 2:33am

Ivan   Offline
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Quote:
Bubba is Clinton. The reason the media does that "Dubya" thing is part and parcel of the liberal philosophy - which the media is a backer of - you are not smart enough to think on your own - you can not make decisions on your own - especially regarding your well being and welfare of your family - since you are that stupid we must put a tag on "Dubya" so youins 'll know who we be talkin bout.

It is also an insult. About like calling Bush "Forest Gump". That is why I call Clinton "Bubba" - same insult.  Grin

So it just boils down to nuances of American politics. That is why the conservatives among us take offence at the "Bush is dumb" jokes - it started as a means to discredit him in the election - it is far from true. But the liberals still use it - they cannot beat him on a debate of the issues so they badmouth him - call him stupid and a draft dodger - Hmmmm - Wasn't it ok with them that Clinton was a draft dodger - but not ok for Bush? Hmmm

BTW - Bush wasn't  - it was more hooey fabricated by the media to influence the election.


OFF-TOPIC
 

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Reply #27 - May 4th, 2003 at 10:07pm
Oso   Ex Member

 
Quote:
P.S. Re your reference to "Bubba or Poppa", Oso. I think I've asked this once before. What is it about the American media that has them incessantly calling the President George "DOUBLE YOU" Bush. We all know who they mean, for for God's sake. Do they think we are all idiots and don't know that the "Mr Bush" they would be speaking of in regard to current matters would be "the younger".
Just personally, it annoys the crap out of me to continually hear him referred to in this "elongated" fashion.
I suspect he is probably peeved occasionally, when he sees he is continually referred to "in deference" to his father.   


Was a direct response to this post Ivan which was 5 posts above mine.
 
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Reply #28 - May 4th, 2003 at 10:48pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Thanks for the info, Oso.

If it's anyones' fault, Ivan, it's mine. I asked the question, in direct reference to a valid post. When I just saw Osos' reply, I thought to myself "this is a bit off topic. maybe I should have asked the question elsewhere". But to do that would have meant starting a new thread and explaining my need to ask etc, etc.

Sometimes, I think it's alright to slip off topic a little (as I'm now doing) so long as it doesn't disrupt the flow of ideas or start debates about something totally unrelated.
If this is the end of it (and as far as I'm concerned, my question has been answered) then, I and a few others may have learnt something and we can get back to the 707.
So forgive me my transgression, I plead.  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #29 - May 5th, 2003 at 4:18am

Ivan   Offline
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ok no offence meant.

Why did NWA use both 707's and DC-8-30's
 

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Reply #30 - May 5th, 2003 at 4:58am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
ok no offence meant.

Why did NWA use both 707's and DC-8-30's


No prob, mate.

I don't know the answer to your question, though.......
I'll have to leave that for the experts.  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #31 - May 5th, 2003 at 10:09pm

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When Pan Am put the 707 into service, they had a safety net in having ordered several Comet 4s for Mexicana de Aviación (then controlled by PanAm).  If the 707 had flopped, the Comets would have been transferred to PanAm.

The K/V/C-135 was the "original" Boeing Model 717

The first successful jetliner would have been the AVRO Canada "Avroliner". 

"The Avro Canada Jetliner was the world's first medium-range jet passenger aircraft. It first flew on August 10, 1949, two weeks after the long-range de Havilland Comet from Britain which was the first jet transport of any kind in the world.

    It could exceed 800 kilometers per hour when the best piston engined transports could only do 500 kph. In the medium-range arena, aging DC-3's were still considered adequate.

On demonstration flights it wowed journalists and representatives of various airlines alike. An American newspaper warned the American Aerospace industry that the Canadian Jetliner should "Give the U.S. a healthy kick in its placidity"

    It flew beautifully .

Howard Hughes borrowed it for some time and was impressed enough to ask about buying them for TWA. The United States Air Force was interested in procuring 20 Jetliners. Other offers were in the works. A great success seemed certain.

    So what did Canada do?.....

    C.D. Howe (of the government) sent a letter to the president of Avro, closing down the project completely. The supposed reason was that Avro could then concentrate on building CF-100's for the Korean conflict...but only a very few of these ever found their way overseas. The prototype Jetliner was used on and off for various test bed uses until 1956, at which time it was cut up for scrap. (The nose and cockpit survive, on display at The National Aviation Museum in Ottawa)."

http://www.lancerusswurm.com/avro_jetliner.htm


 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #32 - May 6th, 2003 at 11:17am

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The 707 lives on in the current 737 if not in fact in "spirit" ... the 737 took a 727 basic fuselage which in itself was the 707 upper lobe with a new lower fuselage...

 

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Reply #33 - Jul 26th, 2003 at 6:48am

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The 707 was the biggest jet at the time that the WTC was built. The WTC was designed so that it would not collapse if one crashed into it
 
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Reply #34 - Aug 10th, 2003 at 6:53am

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Here is some info from the Israeli Air Force website:

http://www.iaf.co.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/item/English/1.3.3.5.4.1.html

Quote:
Boeing-707
Hebrew nickname: 'Re'em' (Oryx)

The IAF's largest transport plane. The 707 was developed in the early 1950's as a transport and refueling plane for the US Navy. Its service in the IAF began in the Yom Kippur War, during which it was used for flying armed personnel to Refidim and other airfields in the Sinai. After the war, several planes were purchased from TWA and other airlines, and additional 707s were leased from the Israel Aircraft Industries.
The Boeing-707 is considered to be a highly capable heavy-duty transport. It has four engines, can carry 82 tons of fuel and remain airborne for ten straight hours.
Besides carrying passengers, the Boeing-707s have some additional roles in the IAF. One 707, for example, serves the Israeli Prime Minister and the President on their state visits abroad. From 1983 on, the Boeings began to carry out midair refueling of fighters, thus lengthening the IAF's range. Their ability as refuellers exceeds even that of the Hercules. The Re'em participated in several of the IAF's long range strikes, including the raid on PLO headquarters in Tunis. In 1991 six of the planes took part in Operation Shlomo, for bringing Ethiopian Jews to Israel.


ID
Primary role: refuel and transport
Origin: USA
Dimentions: Wingspan: 43.4 m
Length: 46.61 m
Height: 12.93 m
Wing area: 279.63 sq. m
Capabilities: Max. no. of passengers: 219
Maximum speed: 544 knots
Ceiling: 13,000 m
Range: 9,915 km
Weight: Empty: 64,048 kg
Max. loaded: 151,320 kg
Power Plant: Four Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3 engines with 8,165 kg. thrust each.




By the way.... Great Idea!


Liran Bar, Israel
 

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Reply #35 - Sep 12th, 2003 at 11:56am

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In reference to question of the B-707 Air Force 1 that particular plane served till 2001 and carried George W.  on it's 444th flight as Air Force 1.  It was officially retired earlier this summer fom that heavily guarded hanger at Andrews AFB. and was flown to San Bernadino Airport where it will be dissmantled and re=assembled @ the Ronald Reagan Library. Flyin Magazine, Sep.03 Page 34.
 

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Reply #36 - Sep 12th, 2003 at 12:02pm

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707 biggest jet when WTC was constructed??  I beg to differ.  In 1974 the B747-200 had already been flying for several years.  Ever see the movie Airport 1974???
 

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Reply #37 - Sep 12th, 2003 at 12:16pm

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Does anyone know if the 707 had a reputation as an easy hand flyer?  My FS 707 is easier than any of my 737's.  Just drop the slats and drop the flaps and I can grease her on anywhere that has at least 10,000 feet of blacktop.  Can't do that with the 737, 767, or 777.  With those it seems you have to get low and get slow at least 20nm out.  It seems to me that the 747 and 727 would be similarly good hand flyers as well for I can grease them from high and fast just like the 707.
 

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Reply #38 - Sep 12th, 2003 at 1:40pm

whraven   Offline
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The 707 was extremely well designed as Boeing was taking quite a risk funding the development on speculation.  The low landing speed was intentional, so the larger airports wouldn't have to lengthen their runways in order to serve it.  In addition, rough field landing capability was included, which the prototype demonstrated.  Another indication of the conservative design criteria was that it should be able to complete a flight with only one of its four engines operative.

As for the WTC design, yes, the 747 may have existed when the WTC was opened in '74.  However, the design period preceded this by a number of years such that the 707 was, in fact, the largest aircraft at the time the design was completed and construction begun.

A couple of pieces of trivia I picked up:

At one point, two 707's were clipped by small aircraft within a period of about a month.  Both completed their flights despite losing a portion of one of the wings.  Shortly after, some wag in airline maintenance included a bulletin in the weekly dispatch notes, indicating that 707's could be dispatched with either the right or the left wing missing!

As a PR stunt, the 707 demonstrator was scheduled to fly over boat races in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, since many airline executives were attending.  On climbout, the pilot did an unauthorized 360 degree, slow roll just to show the strength and capability of the aircraft.  I don't remember whether he was fired or just repremanded, but it sure impressed the execs!

Rich
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Reply #39 - Sep 12th, 2003 at 3:27pm

Ivan   Offline
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wasnt there something with the tail or so that British Airways decided to put on a ventral fin?

Some 707's had RR Conway engines, probably the ones for British Airways
 

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Reply #40 - Sep 12th, 2003 at 7:59pm

Gary R.   Offline
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If God is you're co-pilot,
switch seats.
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Thanks for the facts there Rich. I stand corrected on the WTC/747/707 timeline.  That is a remarkable story about the roll over Lake Geneva Wis. and the wing clip.  Not suprising though that she is a durable bird.  Afterall we are all well familiar with stories of the B-17's hardiness which Boeing seems to build into all their planes.  They haven't laid too many eggs as yet.  One can imagine how profitable a 707 with modern engines and avionics would be but then again, the 57 and 67 have similar capabilities save or range and are already up-to-date and profitable.  I heard a certain celebrity owns a 707 as a private jet.  I keep thinking it's John Travolta but I'm not sure.  Does anyone know?
 

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Reply #41 - Sep 13th, 2003 at 7:20am

Ivan   Offline
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No, I'm NOT Russian, I
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i don't know the name but wasn't that aircraft originally from Quantas?

Probably some mideast sheiks have 707's as private jets, or do they prefer something larger (L-1011)?
 

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Reply #42 - Sep 28th, 2003 at 11:01pm

Wing Nut   Offline
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Hoy-Hoy!

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I think this is a great idea, but wouldn't it be a better idea to make this a sticky every month instead of giving it it's own forum?  Then when you change planes all you need do is unsticky it and it will fall down on it's own, while the new one is up for another month.

Also, it would need to be kept from being The Boeing Show.  Airbus and other manufacturers would need to get equal time.  What about vintage planes?  WWII?  Military?  It will be very complicated unless one person is given authority.

One thing though, if it did have it's own forum, that would be a great index after a few years.
 

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