Simviation Forum - Most Immortal War Plane

Reply #30 - May 6^th, 2003 at 3:11pm

Oz Offline
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I dont really have an argument on the Hurricane, although it was built in more numbers than the Spit. (both are great planes though and both have their place in aviation) I read somewhere that the Meteor went operational some months or weeks before the 262, but maybe its wrong. I mean, both Germany and Britain were working very hard on jet development at around the same time. However the 262 was not the first jet.

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The first jet engines were developed in the thirties by Frank Whittle in England and by Hans Joachim Pbst von Ohain in Germany. On August 27, 1939, the world's first jet-propelled aircraft flew with the Heinkel/Ohain engine He S3B near Rostock in northern Germany.

But that S3B never entered major production.

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It's generally accepted by historians that if the Luftwaffe had continued attacking fighter bases & radar installations instead of London the outcome might well have been completely different.

Oh i know and fully agree on that, as a matter of fact i didnt make an argument against that in my previous post. I simply stated that the RAF spits and hurricanes brought victory to Britain and in no way did i mention anything involving the Luftwaffe's bombing airbases.

Boy this has gotten outta hand, i was only saying in my original post that basically there cannot be an 'immortal aircraft' because all have earned their place in history and all have affected world events.

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Reply #31 - May 6^th, 2003 at 3:17pm

Ivan Offline
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The 'first jet powered aircraft' differs according to the rules you make for it

if you count rocket engines as jet engines, or if you take the aircraft as a guideline (instead of the engine) you will nearly allways arrive at hte same aircraft: the Bi-2 and it's variants.

It managed to get a top speed of 400kmh in the first prototype(Bi-1), the production version could get to speeds around 600kmh

Link to info of Bi-1
http://angela.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/bi.html

The other 'jet' powered aircraft in 1943 was the '302'
http://angela.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/302p.html

The amount of these aircraft in action is unknown, as is the number of the 'project 302'

Rumours exist about a Bi-PVRD, which was powered by 2 ramjets. it has about the same looks as the Bi-1, but with ramjet engines on the wings

The Me-262 was succesfull in its not-so-quite-intended role as bomber destroyer

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Reply #32 - May 6^th, 2003 at 4:09pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

Boy this has gotten outta hand, i was only saying in my original post that basically there cannot be an 'immortal aircraft' because all have earned their place in history and all have affected world events.

Oz. I agree on both points. Some people tend to get a little emotional on these subjects for some reason. Roll Eyes

As I pointed out earlier the poll is about immortality. I'm not sure quite what Richie meant by this but looked at on a purely historical basis not many aircraft have become a legend in the minds of the general public. Wink

Quote:

The 'first jet powered aircraft' differs according to the rules you make for it

if you count rocket engines as jet engines, or if you take the aircraft as a guideline (instead of the engine) you will nearly allways arrive at hte same aircraft: the Bi-2 and it's variants.

It managed to get a top speed of 400kmh in the first prototype(Bi-1), the production version could get to speeds around 600kmh

Thanks again for some interesting info Ivan. I should have qualified my statement by making it clear that the Me 262 was the first operational turbojet aircraft. http://www.gl.iit.edu/wadc/features/aircraft/ME-262/
This does not mean the first turbojet to fly.
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The world's first operational turbojet aircraft, the ME-262 was first flown as a pure jet on July 18, 1942, it proved much faster than conventional airplanes. Development problems, Allied bombings, and cautious Luftwaffe leadership contributed to delays in quantity production. In late 1943, Adolf Hitler agreed to mass production, but insisted the aircraft be used primarily as a fighter-bomber.

PS. The only other warplane legend I can think of is the 3 Sea Gladiator biplanes Faith, Hope & Charity that for some 2 months in 1940 were the only aircraft available to defend Malta from constant air attack by the Reggia Aeronautica.
There might well be similar stories I don't know about.

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Reply #33 - May 7^th, 2003 at 6:19am

Professor Brensec Offline
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In my absence for two days, it seems this thread has become a little emotional. There would even seem to be some confusion over the meaning of the topic "Immortal".

Immortal to me, means the plane that has made an "impact" on the psyche of a people. The plane that people know as "the plane that did that" or "the plane that save this".

In this case it's going to be a different plane for different people for different reasons.

For the Brits, it will always be the Spitfire or the Hurricane, because of their role in the BoB.

For the Eighth Air Force, it would be the P51D. It enabled them to take their bombers into Germany (relatively) without fear of the beatings they used to take from the enemy fighters after the shorter range planes had to turn back. The presence of the P51D would have been an "immortal" comfort for those blokes.

In Australia, our Wirraway wasn't much to speak of (it was a Harvard Texan). So, we had to rely on the P40, and our flyers used them with great skill and to great advantage in New Guinea, Burma, Malaya etc and the North African Desert, in much the same way as the Flying Tigers in China. They are "Immortal" to us.

In fact here is the P40 IMMORTALISED in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. (Sorry boys, I just love posting this picture. Grin

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