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Need a Part Name for These...(screenshot insdie) (Read 1793 times)

Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 11:38am

Whitey Offline
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I've been working on this F-4 for a few days now. I got the source file from FlightSim.com. I've just started animating it after tidying the model and scaling to the correct size. I've ran into a problem with what I believe are called 'elevons'. A quick look in the MakeMDL.doc showed that was such a thing. So I labeled them 'elevon0L' and 'elevon5R'. Well, knowing my luck...they didn't work. Can anyone give me the correct name to use?

Oh, yeah, here's the screenshot:

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/Labels_Help

Thank you.

Wink

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Reply #1 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 11:55am

SilverFox441 Offline
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Label them as elevators and link them to tiny boxes labelled as ailerons...or do it the other way around.

Make sure you get the rotation axis aligned correctly so they rotate in the right plane.

If the two surfaces were in the same plane you would name them as ailerons and use a common box labelled as an elevator to rotate them together.

As you have discovered...elevon names don't work a damn.

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly

&&

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Reply #2 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 12:00pm

Whitey Offline
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Ah, thanks Steve. Wink

Wink

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Reply #3 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 12:57pm

Whitey Offline
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Got it working after a bit of experimenting and pivot point moving. Wink

Wink

This thing's really coming on. I think we'll finally have a good (freeware and gMax) Phantom for FS2002. Grin

Grin

Although all the credt has to go to the dude who made the source file...'cos I can't model to save myself...

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Reply #4 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 4:18pm

Erez Offline
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Hey whitey, V.nice model
Can't wait to have him, repaint it, and finally have a good IAF F-4E. who knows, maybe I'll also make him a
F-4E 2000 panel

Good luck dude, and thanks

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Reply #5 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 4:54pm

Hagar Offline
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Whitey. That looks great but I think you should make sure those are elevons. I'm no expert on the F-4 but always assumed they had the more conventional all-flying tailplane. I found this reference to modifications made to the original prototypes.

Quote:

After much wind-tunnel testing, it was found that the new McDonnell fighter would encounter severe stability problems at high speeds and would as a result probably be limited to speeds below Mach 2. In order to correct these problems, several important changes had to made. One of these was the application of 23 degrees of anhedral to the all-flying tailplane, which became known as a *stabilator*. This gave the necessary degree of stability but still left the tailplane free of the jet exhaust.

If this applied to the production versions they should be animated as elevators. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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Reply #6 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 9:57pm

Blaze Guest

Wow, that F4 looks cool...I hope you can make different model configurations for it (payload, etc.) and make some really nice textures, and a DVC Cheesy

Cheesy

Grin

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Reply #7 - Apr 23^rd, 2003 at 11:09pm

SilverFox441 Offline
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IIRC they are like many carrier planes...elevons at low speed and stabilators at high speed.

Might be hard to get that to work in GMax though...how do you access the variables from within GMax to setup the required display conditions?

In FSDS 2 it would require a little thought...but I have a fair idea on where to go with it without even trying.

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly

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Reply #8 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 3:46am

Whitey Offline
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OK...all that just scared the hell out of me! Grin

Grin

Hmmm...that means a problem then...maybe I should try a F-4 website and enquire on their forums? Bound to be some experts there who'll know. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Quote:

Wow, that F4 looks cool...I hope you can make different model configurations for it (payload, etc.) and make some really nice textures, and a DVC

Last night I got the canopies opening and closing in FS too...and the tailhook. Wink

Wink

I'll have to model my own engines, as they're not in the model, but I don't mind doing that.

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Reply #9 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 4:07am

Erez Offline
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In winter 2004... He is
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Lavi
israel

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Posts: 376

Wait a second

What model is this F-4 will be? F-4B or F-4E? or even RF-4E? why not all?

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Reply #10 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 5:31am

Whitey Offline
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Right now, it's either a F-4J or a F-4K, although the noses for other variants are included. These include the F-4C and the F-4E.

PS: Look at the engine nozzles...looks like the ones on the F-4K to me. Wink

Wink

The rest of thema re longer and there diameter becomes less as the extend outwards.

Can be easily changed with soft selection, though...

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Reply #11 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 5:50am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

OK...all that just scared the hell out of me! Grin

Grin

Hmmm...that means a problem then...maybe I should try a F-4 website and enquire on their forums? Bound to be some experts there who'll know. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Sorry but it's best to be sure. You know how critical people can be these days. I would also be interested in confirming this. I can find out for certain as a friend is involved in operation of the only civil registered F-4 in the US, maybe the world. Remember the F-4 is a very old design & was in constant service with the US military for almost 40 years, longer in other countries. I thought the system SilverFox describes did not come into use until the computer controlled fly-by-wire era. I also read that the roll controls are unusual. A combination of "flaperons" & special spoilers.

Quote:

The trailing edge of the horizontal main wing was divided into two, the inboard surface being a flap and the outboard being a "flaperon". The "flaperon" was a sort of aileron which could be moved down only, not up. Immediately ahead of each was a large spoiler. To roll to the left, the pilot would push the right flaperon down and the left spoiler up. A complex pattern of large perforations was applied to the spoilers which were mounted on the upper wing trailing edges ahead of the flaps and just inboard of the wing folding points. The aircraft had no ailerons in the conventional sense, with control being provided by spoilers and downward flaperons only. The outer wing panels were canted up by twelve degrees and had no control surfaces except for the hinged (drooping) leading edge. The stabilators had a 23 1/4 degree anhedral, and provided all of the pitch control.

Lots more info on all variants here. http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4.html

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Reply #12 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 7:11am

Erez Offline
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In winter 2004... He is
back - in white! IAI
Lavi
israel

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Posts: 376

My cousin is a F-4E 2000 and RF-4E technician, and he says that the Phantom will go out of service at least at 2008 in Israel.
And Hagar, there is another civil registered F-4E Grin

Grin

. It was the F-4E of the IAI, known as the "Super Phantom" that had PW1120 engines, which are powerful and similar (in dimensions) to the J-79, only shorter and more fuel efficient. This engine was supposed to be a part of the F-4E 2000 plan, but with the cancellation of the Lavi, the only jet fighter to use this engine, this plan was cancelled and the engine was no longer manufactured.
It is now at the IAF museum.

Here you can see the PW1120 engine and the civil registration:

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Rarebird/0142.html

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Reply #13 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 8:45am

Hagar Offline
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Thanks Erez. That's very interesting. Your cousin would be just the person to confirm if they're elevators or elevons. Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

This is the Collings Foundation F-4D I was referring to. http://www.collingsfoundation.org/tx_f-4dphantom_pics.htm

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Reply #14 - Apr 24^th, 2003 at 5:45pm

Erez Offline
Colonel
In winter 2004... He is
back - in white! IAI
Lavi
israel

Gender:
Posts: 376

All for the Lady Hagar Wink

Wink

Though I doubt I can meet him at this time, for he is very busy......
BTW Whitey, I would greatly appreciate if after the F-4E variant will be ready, you can add the PW1120 engines to it, and we'll improve him with a better speed and agility, and I'll take care of the paint Wink

Wink

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