Simviation Forum - ILS & Auto Pilot

Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 12:51am

Tomcat61 Offline
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Ok all, I promise this is the last time I annoy anyone with this same question, however after doing everything I have been told to do, I still am having problems with ILS landings and Approach Switch.

Ok I am flying the FTD 757 at present, I have the correct ILS frequency set, I am around 27 NM out when the ILS Diamonds come up on my screen.
Ok, I try to get it pretty much lined up, so the bottom Diamond is near centre, and the side Diamond is nearly centre as well, so now I hit Approach Switch, and it should take over to perfect touch down am I correct ???
But it does not, iether it will keep me straight, but the Alt Hold switch will NOT disengage, and I stay at around 3000 ft and fly right over the runway or the Alt Hold will disengage, but the plane will not keep on centre.

What is happening, very frustrating.
Thanks again...Tomcat61

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Reply #1 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 1:04am

FSTipster Offline
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The only thing I can think of is that you're slightly too high and above the glide slope.

Try flying in a little lower, with the diamond above centre. If you're even a foot above the ILS beam, the autopilot can't capture it.

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Reply #2 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 2:15am

BFMF Offline
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Quote:

f you're even a foot above the ILS beam, the autopilot can't capture it.

Didn't realize that

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Reply #3 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 4:44am

FSTipster Offline
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Someone else mentioned it in the last episode of a thread of this nature. Hagar possibly? Sorry, I forget. Sad

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Reply #4 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 5:25am

Hagar Offline
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Not me Tipster. As a maverick bush pilot I have no use for an A/P or all that stuff. The ILS is a landing aid & I do know that the glide slope must be intercepted from below. I'm not sure FS2002 has an autoland feature? I always considered landing to be the best & most skilful part of the whole flight & all mine are by my own fair hand. 8)

This page posted on the FS2002 Insider site might help.
http://zone.msn.com/flightsim/FS02LessonsFlyingILS.asp

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Reply #5 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 3:42pm

Mr. Bones Offline
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- make sure you have set the correct frequency of that specific runway!

- look on your gps and enter the ILS beam (green arrow) at about 2000ft, you won't be too high then.

- when you hit your aproach button, make sure your AP is on! and switch the ALT hold off! don't forget: the autopilot never controls your rate of descent or your glideslope! you have to do that yourself by adding or reducing power or by pitching.

- planes in FS are programmed to make zig zag turns when they aren't perfectly lined up with the runway centerline. by making these turn, the AP tries to get the plane lined up. keep that in mind when the plane if turing on final.

hope this helped, if not, feel free to ask again!

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Reply #6 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 5:15pm

FSTipster Offline
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Quote:

- when you hit your aproach button, make sure your AP is on! and switch the ALT hold off!

The ALT hold should be left on. When the ILS beam is captured following the APR button being activated, it will turn the ALT Hold off automatically.

Quote:

the autopilot never controls your rate of descent or your glideslope! you have to do that yourself by adding or reducing power or by pitching.

I remember this discussion coming up before. I'm not trying to take issue with you but if it doesn't work for you, you have a serious problem in your FS2002.

The autopilot controls the rate of ascent/descent and follows the angle of the glideslope quite happily. The only time you (usually) encounter problems with it doing so is if either the flight dynamics of the aircraft itself are poorly tuned, or, when following the ILS glideslope, you have the flap and/or speed settings wrong.

I can assure you that the FS2002 autopilot will perform all the above mentioned functions in relation to ILS glideslope and norml ascent/descent - I did it myself not half an hour ago.

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Reply #7 - Mar 23^rd, 2003 at 11:55pm

DJ Guest

Don't forget to turn the NAV/GPS switch to NAV.

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Reply #8 - Mar 24^th, 2003 at 1:49pm

Mr. Bones Offline
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FStipster, i'm quit sure about what i said before. but to make things clear...

if you enter your ILS beam at lets say 2000ft and you put your ALT on (while APR is on) and set it at lets say 0ft with a vertical speed of lets say -500fpm, then your AP will control your descent, otherwise it doesn't!

the ILS and AP systems in FS show you the perfect glideslope (pink arrow in your HSI), but you have to follow it yourself...

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Reply #9 - Mar 24^th, 2003 at 3:12pm

FSTipster Offline
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Quote:

FStipster, i'm quit sure about what i said before. but to make things clear...

if you enter your ILS beam at lets say 2000ft and you put your ALT on (while APR is on) and set it at lets say 0ft with a vertical speed of lets say -500fpm, then your AP will control your descent, otherwise it doesn't!

the ILS and AP systems in FS show you the perfect glideslope (pink arrow in your HSI), but you have to follow it yourself...

The Alt key should be on before you engage the APR button. You don't turn it on after you've engaged APR.

That's why isn't working. What you're doing is engaging the APR, then over-riding it's function with the Alt function stopping APR working. In addition, because the APR button is now engaged, the ALT key won't set or follow the V/S rate to take it to ground (when you set the Altitude at 0).

Try this:

1) Pick any airport with an ILS and set yourself up about 30nm miles from the runway, roughly lined up, and at an altitude of no more than 3,000 feet.

2) Use ALT (which is purely the altitude hold button - not the rate of descent/ascent) and set it at 2,000 feet. (The plane will descend to that altitude at the default rate for the aircraft you're in).

3) When you've got the ILS indicators on screen, engage the APR button. ( Make sure you are below the ILS beam when you do this).

4) Wait. At this point, the autopilot will be making heading adjustments left and right to line you up on the runway - it will not be doing anything with the alttitude yet.

5) When your aircraft intercepts the glideslope, you'll see the ALT light go out (automatically) and the autopilot will follow the glideslope down towards the runway.

6) 2-3nm from touchdown, disengage the autopilot and take over the final stage of landing.

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Reply #10 - Mar 24^th, 2003 at 3:19pm

RollerBall Ex Member

???

Sorry Ken, tipster's right.

I think the mistake people are making is they think they can just suddenly switch on APR to get the ILS to work.

Sorry, not like that. You can't be flying manually and then just switch APR. You have to be flying on HDG and ALT (probably 2000-2500 ft say) on autopilot with NAV/GPS switched to NAV, ideally be on a relative heading of 30 deg to the localiser beam and you MUST be below the glideslope (that's why you're some way under 3000 ft and something like 15 miles out DME).

Now the bar in the middle of your HSI comes into play. You'll notice that it's broken - as you intercept the localiser at around 10 miles DME it starts to move - the break gets narrower. THAT'S when you switch to APR. When the aircraft begins to turn onto the loacliser beam that's called established on localiser. The ALT hold button will still be lighted. Then, a bit later at say 8 miles DME you'll see the ALT button go out. You're fully established on the ILS and you'll fly right down the beam if everything's OK.

Control AS with autothrottle - say 180 reducing to 160-170 kts at approx 500 ft full flap approaching the threshold in a 747. Cut the autopilot and autothrottle and land manually.

There's NO automatic landing in FS2002 despite what some people will try to tell you.

There ya go!

Wink

Roger

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Reply #11 - Mar 24^th, 2003 at 4:03pm

Brett_Henderson Ex Member
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Quote:

There's NO automatic landing in FS2002 despite what some people will try to tell you.

That's right (to a point)...

You have to deploy the flaps, manage the airspeed and drop the gear,, but,, if you do it all right,, tha A/P (on APR) will fly you right to the ground... granted,, you may land a "little" hard, so I disengage right at the numbers and flare a bit.

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Reply #12 - Mar 24^th, 2003 at 4:37pm

RollerBall Ex Member

Quote:

you may land a "little" hard

OK so long as you're flying something with almost unbreakable gear!

I haven't gone out of my way to try, but I don't think you'd get away with it with eg any of the POSKY models - which try to be as realistic as it's possible to be

Roger

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Reply #13 - Mar 25^th, 2003 at 10:47am

fisharno Offline
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There is allot to manage to make a good landing.

Manually following and holding the ILS all the way to the ground is one of the more challanging scenarios in FS. Doing it well in different conditions every time, hones your concentration and disipline.

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