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Wings blend to fuselage please look (Read 2371 times)
Mar 12th, 2003 at 10:57am

Erez   Offline
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Reply #1 - Mar 12th, 2003 at 12:46pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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one way is that gmax has a "connect" feature that allows you to connect nearby objects.

There is a TIP at Freeflight Design Shop that covers this point.
 

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Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 12:21am

Erez   Offline
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ammm....
Is that the tip?
http://www.freeflightdesign.com/tips/gmaxWingFusefillets.htm

Because I didn't understand a word of it ???
 
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Reply #3 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 10:10am
Rick Sasala   Guest

 
The best way is to do a Boolean with the wings and fuselage. Then after you tidy-up the boolean, attach the wings and fuselage. Then weld all the vertex's of the  parts and it will look as one....Rick
 
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Reply #4 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 10:41am

Erez   Offline
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RIGHT.........
And where is that boolean command button?
 
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Reply #5 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 10:50am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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You get the boolean operations from the create tab, compound objects.  You'll want to perform a "Union" operation.

 

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Reply #6 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 11:03am
Rick Sasala   Guest

 
If you don't know where the boolean command is or how it's used, you need to do some reading...Rick
 
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Reply #7 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 11:54am

Erez   Offline
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Quote:
If you don't know where the boolean command is or how it's used, you need to do some reading...Rick 

Thanks for the encouragement Rick Wink... Reading is the last thing I need right now. I have been reading and still does plenty tutorials.
Thanks Felix, but I got a minor problem that I'm sure you know how to fix because you know Gmax as the palm of your hand. When I was trying to see and apply your help, I pressed on the side tab (where the create tab and other tabs) and it disappeared and I have no idea how to get him back. thanks again I was pretty stuck but I think I will be able to take from here Cheesy
 
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Reply #8 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 12:08pm
Rick Sasala   Guest

 
I could spend hours explaining the many different ways of making those two parts look as one. But if you don't know the basics, how in the hell are you gonna understand the advanced stuff?....Rick
 
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Reply #9 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 1:24pm

Erez   Offline
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Hey I'm doing my best Angry
Beside, that's the all problem. I don't have that much time to learn something that won't actually help me in real life. It's fun and all and I'm designing a plane that I really like but It's just a small hobby for me. and I got to start from something. I think that I'm doing fine until now.
 
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Reply #10 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 1:36pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Keyboard "3"  key toggles the hide/unhide the command panel.  (Help->Index-?Default keyboard Shortcuts")

Rick does have a point.  The recent questions have been on the "basics"  As some people realize and know, I am NO expert (more like apprentice amateur) in gmax.  However - I read the forums, and can use the help feature in gmax.

It is imperative, especially in a program like gmax, to go through all the tutorials that come with the program.





Quote:
Thanks for the encouragement Rick Wink... Reading is the last thing I need right now. I have been reading and still does plenty tutorials.
Thanks Felix, but I got a minor problem that I'm sure you know how to fix because you know Gmax as the palm of your hand. When I was trying to see and apply your help, I pressed on the side tab (where the create tab and other tabs) and it disappeared and I have no idea how to get him back. thanks again I was pretty stuck but I think I will be able to take from here Cheesy

 

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Reply #11 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 2:35pm

Erez   Offline
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Yeah I know that's ARE basic questions.
U know what the problem is? the best tutorial I know is Hugh Shoults's, there are some other but the Stupid Idiot is the best. But they all have a real big problem. they are working on kind of planes that I don't wan't to design, old combat planes. A good tutorial on combat fighters IMHO has to be about the F-16, a common and varsible plane that uses technologies that most of the fighters have.
 
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Reply #12 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 2:57pm

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Hey, settle down Erez. You are such a serious & earnest young man. LOL
Felix & Rick are trying to help you so don't start shouting the odds. I doubt either has ever designed an F-16 in Gmax & you will be waiting for a very long time for anyone who has to write a tute on doing it.

The point here is that the wing joint will be exactly the same on most aircraft, whether they be "old combat planes" or F-16s. Learn the basics & you might understand what they're trying to tell you.

Now please don't start shouting at me.  Wink
 

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Reply #13 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 3:06pm

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One thing about "how to" tutorials is that you won't satisfy everyone.

However, an "older" combat plane has propellers - or turbine disks - you still have the "blended wing/fuse fillet"  The BASICS are there.  Specifics, like spoilerons, elevons, etc., well some had them ... heck, planes like the Fairey Flycatcher had full span ailerons on both wings that could be drooped to serve like flaps ... voilá flaperons!

Some people complain because the tutorial doesn't cover airliners, GA aircraft ... etc. etc.

There is no magic substitute for just plunging into any program and learning it - screwing up is the best teacher - as long as you live to tell about it!



Quote:
Yeah I know that's ARE basic questions.
U know what the problem is? the best tutorial I know is Hugh Shoults's, there are some other but the Stupid Idiot is the best. But they all have a real big problem. they are working on kind of planes that I don't wan't to design, old combat planes. A good tutorial on combat fighters IMHO has to be about the F-16, a common and varsible plane that uses technologies that most of the fighters have.

 

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Reply #14 - Mar 13th, 2003 at 7:50pm

X_eidos2   Offline
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If you want to have a smooth blending wing joint with the fuselage there are two things to remember.

Make the fuselage and wing all from the same piece. Create a cylinder. Make it the length of the fuselage. Divide it into many sections. Select the polygons on the side that are close to where the wings should be. Extrude these polygons a few times and you'll have the raw material for forming the wings. Then it's just a matter of pushing and pulling the vertices around until things look right. (Easier said than done  Wink)The reason you want everything to be one piece is so that the smooth modifier will work on it.

You could make the parts separately - but then you's have to join them together in such a way so that all the vertices are welded together or are all part of the same object. Smooth will only work on one object at a time.

Do not have the wing go through the sides of the fuselage. Any time you have a polygon passing through the side of another polygon, you're going to get a jagged, stair-stepped edge when you see the mesh in a flight sim. The software isn't smart enough to accurately determine where the edge between the two polygons should be.

I've been modeling aircraft on computers as a professional modeler since 1995. Getting a good, smooth wing fillet is one of the hardest things to do. One reason is that most three-views have this area covered up with engines and other parts of the wing and it's hard to figure out exactly how things go.

Good luck with your project.
 
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Reply #15 - Mar 14th, 2003 at 7:13am

Erez   Offline
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LOL Hagar Cheesy, I'll try not to lose my mind again;)
Thanks everyone, you helped me out. Smiley
Felix, aren't you a designer? or at least try to be? or you just read the entire furom? bored or what? Grin
Anyone want to guess how many times I have been trying to design the this Lavi? I'll say about 12 files (until now) Tongue
 
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Reply #16 - Mar 14th, 2003 at 10:03am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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An interesting observation -

Am I a modeller (designer is too "strong" a word, overall, we're modellers, not "designers")?  I"d say yes - although I haven't taken my modelling skills to the levels others have.  I've built or started well over 100 models - released only about three - and contributed some basic source files.

Do I just read the forums?  Well, like many other modellers, I do frequent a number of design forums on a regular basis - Simviation.com, flightsim.com, and of course, Freeflight Design Shop, where I host the forum and am website caretaker.

The value of visiting several forums regularly is that you "learn" from others  - asking questions, answering questions and getting feedback from others.

I started reading the flightsim.com and FFSD forums for about a month or so  before I started noting that many questions were the same - to the point where I had "canned" texts ready, basically, I 'took over' from other regulars who I noted in their posting were getting weary of answering the same thing. 

That was in the "old" days as FS2000 was about to come out, the main program was AF99 and FSDS was just ready to hit the shelves.

I still answer mostly the "regular" questions - an leave the hard stuff to the "experts" that never fail to jump in and correct me, nudge my answer or expand on something I may say.



Quote:
Felix, aren't you a designer? or at least try to be? or you just read the entire furom? bored or what? Grin

 

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Reply #17 - Mar 16th, 2003 at 7:43am
Boaz Shachar   Guest

 
Erez, as the first modeler to ever release an IAI Lavi, I salute u, and hope ur first model turns out to be your best as well Wink

Boaz
 
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Reply #18 - Mar 16th, 2003 at 5:13pm

Erez   Offline
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Toda Boaz Wink
Care to join are small first Israeli flight simulation site? you are most welcome: http://www.ifs.flying.to/

Anyway it's release date is really unknown, as you might read, I'm a total begginer trying to fight this program. In fact I'm considering building a new model from scratch, using the knowledge I gained on the current one. It is infact a really basic model that with the time that I learned new things I added them. but I think it's the time to restart with tubes and boxes again Wink If you got some sources or exclusive photos of him (not from the net) and you can send them to me, it will help a lot.
Bye Achi, nedaber.
 
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Reply #19 - Mar 17th, 2003 at 12:07am

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Hey Erez, maybe you don't have to start from scratch.

Goto www.onnovanbraam.com and there you will find tutorials that relate to 3Dmax and GMAX. At the top of the page, the list is abvious. There, you can learn how to use Splines and other methods that good modelers use. The site also has 3-view images that you can use to make more models.

Hope this helps.
 
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Reply #20 - Mar 17th, 2003 at 4:36am

Erez   Offline
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Thanks pal Wink I'll have a look
At first I used the Lavi's 3-view from there, but later I got better ones and now I use mainly pictures (except from the top view). I had a first look on the method and it seems very good and really short. thanks again Cheesy
 
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Reply #21 - Mar 20th, 2003 at 7:23am

Erez   Offline
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Something odd just happened ??? ??? ???
I got email for reply here, had to go to school (with gas mask Grin) but saw for a second that Oso wrote something.... is it gone or what?????????????
 
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Reply #22 - Mar 20th, 2003 at 10:50am
Oso   Ex Member

 
Yes I did but I deleted it.

I gave you a compliment on your Lavi - It is coming along very nicely. Nice job. I hope that I can do so well. Grin

Why I deleted it was that I opened my mouth about going to build my Constellation. Then started researching and found out just how hard it was to do. Decided that I would hold off on the announcement till I know better about whether I can do it or not.

Heads up over there Erez - take care.
 
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Reply #23 - Mar 20th, 2003 at 3:35pm

Erez   Offline
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Thanks Oso, I'll restart working on it soon.
You can't believe how much this gas mask stinks of rubber! when you hold it for a second, it smells like you repaired your bicycle's tire for an hour !
But it's ok, we are ready. No one can be ready as us, and this psycho must go. we are laughing about it here and we take this easy. I said to my friends (we all came with the rear command's kit,that is a smalll box that we hang on our side) that I saw that everyone wears this "new fashion" so I had to try it myself Grin
keep on going, and mae the world a better place for the humanity.
Bye bye Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin
 
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Reply #24 - Mar 20th, 2003 at 3:47pm
Boaz03   Guest

 
erez, I too walked to school with my gas mask today, was kinda funny actually, everyone opened their filter up last night (something ur not really supposed to do) so they all started panicking when I told them that it only lasts for a month after it's opened (and if it isn't used, otherwise it's about 4 hours) anyways, I hope to see some more shots of the Lavi, the biggest (and most beautiful) waste of money in IAI's history Tongue
 
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Reply #25 - Mar 20th, 2003 at 8:49pm

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You can still see th eLavi in squadron service - only now it's called the Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC) J-10 ..  made in CHina ...

Wink

Quote:
I hope to see some more shots of the Lavi, the biggest (and most beautiful) waste of money in IAI's history Tongue

 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #26 - Mar 21st, 2003 at 6:18am

Erez   Offline
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OH FELIX DON'T REMIND ME THE J-10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm ashame of it so much! I can't even talk about it!
After reading and researching about the Lavi, I searched about the J-10-Lavi connection, and it's shocking. believe me, and trust me as man with a lot of knowledge about both of them, THIS IS THE RAPE (and not revive) OF THE BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL ISRAELI PROUD SYMBOL,  THE IAI LAVI, THAT INSTEAD OF DEFENDING MY SMALL COUNRTY, INSTEAD OF BEEN FLOWN BY ME (I hope, one day) AND OTHER ISRAELI PILOTS, IT WILL NOW DEFEND COMMUNISTS, AND WILL DESTROY OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE US.
And Boaz, as an Israeli, I promise you, after this all Iraqi stuff will over, Bush will "take care" of us too. You need to understand, this is the biggest mistake that Israel has ever done. So don't even show a little happiness, we should be ashamed.
we screw it up, big time

STUPID US!!! Embarrassed Embarrassed Embarrassed

I'd like to take it elsewhere, maybe to Cafe Simviation.
to all the Americans here,  I'm not talking as an Israeli citizen. I'm talking to you as a citizen of the world. Stop this leak of technology. we've gone bad.
Sorry.
 
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Reply #27 - Mar 21st, 2003 at 9:42am
boaz03   Guest

 
erez, I don't understand what ur talking about. and about the Lavi, fighters are expensive, and very difficult to produce, especially for a nation that must live in a constant state of war. The Lavi was expensive, very expensive, the systems may have been an amazing leap of technology, but the airframe was 4th generation, tho started in the early 80's, it wouldn't have flown operationally till the late 90's, when it would've been obsolete. The systems have gone on to sell thousands tho, they were a big success, and IAI offers them as an upgrade for a bunch of 4th generation aircraft, we did succeed in a way.The way the IAF conducts its business nowadays is best.  They buy US aircraft, with US money, and add in Israeli avionics and 'upgrades', that suit our needs.

I too believe the Lavi is a beautiful aircraft, and I get sick just looking at the condition of the prototype in the IAF museum.
 
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Reply #28 - Mar 21st, 2003 at 10:47am

Erez   Offline
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You didn't heard about the J-10? the newspapers don't show it for some reason. I searched Google for it for a week. I found a lot of info about him.
He is based on 70% on the Lavi, 15% on pakistani F-16, and 15% russian/chinese tech.
Give me your email and I'll send my pics to you.
look well. I bet the things that you see different from our Lavi are a new intake a single seat. these have explanations. 1st the intake. it's depend on the engine. the Lavi's intake was identical (almost) to the F-16's because they had the same engine (the Lavi's was improved sub model). this time they used a russian engine so they had to redesign his intake. about the single seat. the 300 Lavi planes were supposed to be single seaters (only 60 two seaters operational trainers).
Also, if you are serious about it, look for it on google.
By the way, the Lavi's prototype at IAF museum looks like brand new. Iv'e been there 6 months ago, and it was just repainted. He is beauty again.
 
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Reply #29 - Mar 21st, 2003 at 1:28pm

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Air International just published an article on the J-10, where they more or less - without saying so - call on the design as parallel development - my characterisation..

The J-10 is a bigger airplane, and the wings, though of overall similar shape, have a "simpler" look to them and do not have wingtip missle rails.

I'm not completely ready to say that the J-10 is the Lavi reborn, since the overall concept is similar to even Mig-21 prototypes /test aircraft of the '60s...



Quote:
You didn't heard about the J-10? the newspapers don't show it for some reason. I searched Google for it for a week. I found a lot of info about him.
He is based on 70% on the Lavi, 15% on pakistani F-16, and 15% russian/chinese tech.
Give me your email and I'll send my pics to you.
look well. I bet the things that you see different from our Lavi are a new intake a single seat. these have explanations. 1st the intake. it's depend on the engine. the Lavi's intake was identical (almost) to the F-16's because they had the same engine (the Lavi's was improved sub model). this time they used a russian engine so they had to redesign his intake. about the single seat. the 300 Lavi planes were supposed to be single seaters (only 60 two seaters operational trainers).
Also, if you are serious about it, look for it on google.
By the way, the Lavi's prototype at IAF museum looks like brand new. Iv'e been there 6 months ago, and it was just repainted. He is beauty again.

 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #30 - Mar 21st, 2003 at 4:31pm

Erez   Offline
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The J-10 is not a Lavi rebirth, you are right.
But rather this A/C is like or unlike the Lavi in layout (and I'll say it's about 80%like him) all matters is the technology that was given to us by the americans at the time, and the technology that we developed during this project, with US aid, and sold it and betray the US, that trusted us. only few years ago the US let us sell (the Kfir's engine is J-79) Kfir's to some countries, and the Kfir is old tech fighter, that can be flown for just few more years.
Boaz, It's right. the IAI did (and still) sells the Lavi's system for upgrading older A/C's (mig-21, F-4E, F-5E and many more to to IAF, like some of the F-16's systems and the F-4E Kurnass 2000). we made a lot of money with it, and the US remained silence. now they want us to report any weapons deals with 27 countries, and the top of the list is China and India.
at the end of all things, we are in troubles, and for what? for few more million $$?
I bet the Lavi's designers, that see him as their son, aren't that happy with this fighter.
I bet Moshe Arens, the "big daddy" of the project (and you can say obsessed, as he tries to revive him every couple of years) looks at the J-10 and cries. What parent wouldn't be crying when he knows that his child is been raped.
 
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