Anyone wanna spam this guy? Why not upload bogus files to him? They are aren't tracable, and you can send him all the junk you wish. Zip some porn, or how bout a couple hundred copies of the "FSpirate.com pic, or simply download stuff off his site and upload it again. That should give him some extra work to take up his valuable time.

"Beery, of course all files should be copyrighted, otherwise it becomes a free-for-all where individuals can take what they wish, and claim it as their own."

Oh no!!!  Whatever shall we do?  All these files being claimed by folks who didn't create them.  The world will undoubtedly end. 

I've never claimed copyright on any patch I've made.  In fact I've actively encouraged people to steal my stuff, mess with it, and claim it as their own if they wish.  Heck, they can sell it if they want to - I don't need the money, maybe they do, and jolly good luck to them.  You want to take a guess as to how many folks have claimed any of my stuff as their own in the last 7 years since I made my first patch?  Not one, and my Red Baron 3D patch was probably the most popular download for that game.

In my opinion this is a non-issue.  There just are not that many people stalking the intellectual property of others in the add-on community.  Sure, there are always a few people willing to exploit the system in any society, but that's no reason to make the whole system unusable for the vast majority of folks who just want to share the knowledge and add to it.  This is what's happening here with this apparent obsession with copyright - we're getting so paranoid about a very few bad apples that we're throwing out the whole basket and spoiling it for everyone else.  What does it matter if someone steals our work?  It's not like we're asking to get paid for it in the first place, so why does the fact that someone might be turning a profit (in part from our labours) suddenly change our viewpoint?

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why it would be a bad thing if, as you say, 'it becomes a free-for-all where individuals can take what they wish, and claim it as their own'.

What a good idea!! Hadn't thought of that..

I do not know your age - perhaps you are a young man - and time of changes will come in your life -   - If you are an aged man - like me - your priority will only to be healty and be alive!  - with thoughs for your inners family!    - -   God Bless you!

Balbo

If us designers did not impose restrictions

Anyway - even if somebody will make money with your or mine freeware - - what does change for you???  after all the main goal is to offer your work to as many simmers as you can - - that is why you design it - -  is it??  that should be your only goal!!!!   and what is keeping the whole thing floating!!!    Design a file - - as freeware  - - and then restricting distribution - - you are better off not to do it - - or just keep your little darling  sitting nicely on your desktop!!  just for your own pleasure.

balbo

Quote:


I agree.  If we want to distribute freeware, we should just distribute it and not worry about who is exploiting what.  We need to figure out what our goals are in making freeware add-ons.  If our goal is to get good work out there and get it widely used, then once we've done that, we've done our job.  'Anything else', as Manfred von Richthofen used to say, 'is rubbish'.  If, on the other hand, we want to set ourselves up as the '3rd party patch police', then we need to think about whether we've got our priorities straight.  After all, intellectual property theft only infringes on the free distribution and use of add-ons if the thief restricts others' ability to freely distribute the work.  That isn't happening in this case.

Anyway, I've made my point.  Some won't agree with me - that's okay.  I hope some will agree with me, and perhaps over time we can prove to the others by our efforts that non-copyright is the best way to go.

Quote:


Just one more thing, sorry.  After this I'll shut up.

To most people, copyright notices look daunting.  They don't exactly give the impression that the writer is going to be happy with requests to alter, repost or otherwise mess with, or distribute the material (especially given the fact that the file's creator asked IN WRITING for users NOT to do those very things).  Most folks, when confronted with a readme file that includes even a very innocuous copyright notice, are going to leave the file, and the file's owner, well alone.

People generally will simply do what the freeware's creator wants and not press for anything more - after all, the author has given the user a free gift.  Most people assume that asking for more is an imposition.

Again, copyright notices don't EVER give the impression that the writer is inviting folks to call him and ask if it's okay to take his file and change, or redistribute it.  If, as you seem to be arguing, we want folks to assume that the copyright notices are, in part, invitations for dialogue, then we're choosing the absolute worst way to send that message.

Quote:


Even though the guy may deserve it, we don't want to stoop to his level, it just makes it worse

interesting idea for a repaint

lol, you're funny Bman!

We can see different points of view - that is right. We must also consider: running a freeware site with a vast database is extremely expensive! not matter what - it does costs lots of dollars every month!  As a honest point of view - asking so little in exchange in order to distribute freeware for 1 year - is justified.  --  many sites are diverting into this kind of policy - which will ensure freeware distribution for future - without understress a webmaster - in thinking 'How do I pay those bills every month'  - - those sites that adopt this systems - are blistery fast - and I can assure easy I get with adsl downloads speed up to 80 to 90 kb sec - able to switch from a page to another in less than 1 sec!! 
We also have a statement from avsim which can prove it:

AVSIM Online is one of the oldest and largest web sites online dedicated to serving the simulation community. Currently we run three servers and have a very large "pipe" connected to the Internet. Our 30+ volunteers, from top to bottom, work daily to bring you the best in simulation news, resources, discussions and files. Those servers, the pipe and our philosophy of continuing improvement in services provided to the sim enthusiast cost money. Lots of money. AVSIM spends tens of thousands of dollars a year bringing you the Premier Resource in simulation. Advertising, commissions from product sales, and other revenue generating efforts on our part do a lot to help pay the bills. But you can help! Donate today to your simulation resource! Help us continue to provide you service and feature enhancements as well as all the great news, files and forums focused on our hobby. Please contribute today - your contribution will be put to good use supporting your hobby and community!

That is true!! and you all should think about seriously - as this cost will only increases in the future and eventually force every freeware distribution database to take necessary action in order to secure its exhistance.

balbo

The issue as far as I can tell is not complying with a simple request.

Please do no redistribute to anywhere unless I give permission to do so. Please contact me if you have intentions to upload these files to any site that these files weren't originally uploaded to. I will give permission to do so in most cases

Two of my planes are there also and I put that into my readme file. All he had to do is ask.

I've explained my reasons at some length twice now.

Obviously not everyone agrees with my viewpoint. Nevertheless it remains my viewpoint and the viewpoint of several other people.

I'll continue to persue a man who seeks to profit (note the word "profit" means financially as well as any other definition you may attribute to it) from my work without my permission and contrary to a licence that's very clear and easy to understand.

He makes his money from the First class membership fees and his cut of the payware CDs that are sold by mondalori.com (who host his files) full of freeware software from his site.

The ad revenue is small potatoes by comparism.

Quote:


the thing is, my friend, that at flightsim.com, they will take the file down if you ask them

also you have a lot more of a chance of getting in without the first class membership there than at fsplanet

Well, I don't know.  I guarantee that I'm the most anti-capitalist guy on this forum - I despise any form of exploitation for profit (even the legal kind), but even if one accepts the theory that this guy is a thieving, moneygrubbing S.O.B. who is making a part of his profit illegitimately from the labour of others, I still really don't see what the big deal is.

In an effort to stop this thread becoming like a broken record, let's try to look at this from a different angle.  Would you folks be happier if, instead of having a download right there on his site, he instead used links to your preferred download sites and included a note saying that those files were at that site?  If so, what's the difference?  He would still be offering basically the same service, but without infringing on your licensing rights.  Would you still have a problem with that?  If so, why?  If not, why not?

There's absolutely no need to apologise.

You might find Ric Barker's message at the top if this page useful:

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=fs2002;action=display;num=...

"He makes his money from ........... his cut of the payware CDs that are sold by mondalori.com (who host his files) full of freeware software from his site. "

I'm not sure I understand fully (I'm obviously missing a lot of context in regard to the history of this situation).  Are you saying that he takes other peoples' freeware titles and packages them up and charges a profit for the files on the CD?  Or are you saying that he charges for entry into his site and hosts other peoples' freeware on that site while packaging up his own work on CDs?

If the former, then I would be more willing to concede the point.  But still, he may simply be passing along the outlay for the CDs he's burning.  I think, before we organize an angry mob armed with flaming torches and head out towards Castle Frankenstein, we ought to make it clear to everyone exactly what the monster has done that's so bad.  I came to this thread with no knowledge of the background and to be perfectly honest the vitriol here made me think that you were all a bunch of reactionary wackos hellbent on controlling every aspect of your contributions to the game and God help anyone who got in your way.  There may be other newbies who might be getting a similar impression.

This guy is making money (his ISP are actually doing the selling) from freeware files on CD without the permission of the authors. That IS illegal. Ah well, let us hope that they get closed down by the Gardia Civilia. Nice gentlemen who open doors with sledgehammers!
Unfortunately there will always be people who are prepared to flaunt the law to make a few quick bucks of someone elses hard work, but look at his forum, he is going out of business fast as he has slightly less ethics than a rattlesnake with toothache. Couldn't happen to a more deserving individual.

LONG LIVE SIMVIATION, home of the best people in Flight Simming.

Ozzy

Quote:

Thanks. I have followed the gist of the 2 threads on this subject for some days. Now I know the crux of the matter you have my full support, whatever good that may be.

I'm no legal expert but I think to have any chance of success you have to concentrate on the actual piracy issue rather than cloud it with arguments on the morality of posting essentially free files on a free site. This is why it took me so long to understand what this is really all about. I'm sure this is how the lawyers would look at it. Providing it is clearly stated in the conditions that a file is Freeware & not for commercial use, it is is llegal to include it on a CD & sell it for profit. This is perfectly straightforward & how I would approach it.

Let's face it, it would be easier for him to simply download the files & put them on a CD without posting them on his site as well. He doesn't really need a website at all except to advertise his stuff. If what you say is true, which I no longer doubt, at least he is doing this quite openly for the time being. The danger is that he will go underground & continue his piracy. This would make him much more difficult to track down.

There are a few little tricks you could do by hiding messages in the files themselves that would be seen by the end-user when selecting them in the sim. I won't go into detail as he or his accomplices could well be reading this. Something like "This file is Freeware. If you were charged for it return it immediately & demand a refund. Also report it to your local Trading Standards Office" should have some effect.

Quote:


Yes, I would be very much happier.  The difference is that it allows the author to maintain configuration management.

When I started posting freeware I originally did it on just one site so when I produced an update I knew where to post it.  A few other sites also requested permission to put these products in their libraries, which was OK because I still kept track of what was where.  But now they have spread to so many sites without permission, like FSPlanet, that I don't know what version is where. So I gave up trying to distribute updates.  Even if I wanted to keep the versions on pirate sites up to date, every site has different methods and rules for uploading and it would take weeks of effort.

I get several emails a day from people who are using releases as much as 7 versions old they just downloaded from one site or another.  They are still dealing with bugs that were fixed a year ago.  This is frustrating as hell and a big waste of time for both those users and myself.

And to make matters worse, FSPlanet seems to be misrepresenting some of my products.  They claim to have version 2.1.1 of one utility posted, but it is actually only up to 1.3.2.  It is also shown with some kind of strange screen pic.

I wouldn't mind so much if the pirate sites would at least make an effort to keep versions up to date. But they don't, and it is doing a big disservice to the community by keeping outdated and dubious material circulating long after it should be discarded.

Any new product I release from now on will be posted on only two or three sites. It will have in big bold writing at the beginning of the ReadMe which three sites those are, and if they got it from any other site it is illegally posted, probably obsolete, and possibly tampered with.  Since a germ like Ferdy is likely to edit the ReadMe to remove that warning, I will probably have to put it as a pop-up window in the product itself.

Regarding the open-source concept: maybe in some utopian fantasy world does a product just keep on improving if everybody and anybody gets to rework it and repost it without any kind of central control authority, but in reality it ends up as a configuration nightmare where there are hundreds of versions and permutations floating around worked on by numerous people.  Nobody takes ultimate responsibility. New users can't keep track of what permutation has what feature or bug and they don't know who to ask for help if something goes wrong.  Maybe it could work with a small group of enthusiasts, but in the huge MSFS community, with hundreds of web sites all over the world, it is a recipe for chaos.

Quote:


OMG I CANNOT BELIEVE I HAVE BEEN MISSING ALL OF THIS! Right now i am hitting myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Urgh!

Ozzy, Simviation will LIVE forever! Yeah

Tipster, this might seem a little late and well, my ISP was having some trouble these past days. Anyways, i back you up 100000%. I do not know what making a panel or spending time on it is like but just imagining myself doing it and then seeing it somewhere else without my permission just makes me mad, as if i was the the one that built it!

I believe Ferdy is reading all of this, there is no special reason why he shouldn't be.

Tipster, i hope you come down on him on all possible ways. You were finally one to take action and well, I am sure everyone here backs you up. Right? Maybe 95% of the people? That is enough to win this thing.

Ferdy, why the hell are you doing all this crap?

.......Ferdy has to be missing something, maybe respect for the wishes of an owner.  I am sure i would never do that. If you get over 40,000 visitors.....that is the number right?.........and you have memberships why do you have to go around uploading stuff you shouldn't?

Tipster, it is really cool you are helping the Simviation site by not allowing FSpirate, formerly called FSplanet.........

One last thing, i also think alike from the view that we have to control ourselves. I am just a kid but even though i am a kid i wouldn't go the edge of sending vruses or spam. We were talking about their forums and how dead it is. Ours is obviously not dead! Over 12 pages all together one on sigle thread? WOW. Back to the topic, we have very respectful people in this forum so let's not ruin our reputation over this?

As i said, i can only imagine the anger you are feeling but let's keep between the normal, civilised lines?

--John

PS: Oh yeah, we got a living human being in control of FSpirate (y'know what i am talking about) but this human being deserves to know he is doing something wrong, no he is not acting like an adult. I can probably show him how to live! ( exaggeration? maybe so)

Volftp is Mondalori.com as I understand it. It's the trade name for their ftp server service which FSPlanet use for their files.

here is your panel john: http://volftp.mytech.it/e/j/flight.jsp?year=03&month=mar&p=8

they also have some DSB stuff there, didn't see any TULK stuff yet


p.s. long live simv!

Sucks doesn't it.

All we can do is keep plugging at it. I've more e-mails going off this weekend. Not sure The Queen understands much about flight simming, but I'm hoping for a telegram anyway...  (Just Kidding)

LOL - I think Tony Blair and the U.N. are probably a little busy right now.

However, my M.P. probably isn't quite so pre-occupied. I've forwarded my e-mails to the Spanish and Italian embassies to him with a covering e-mail.

Ric Barker (who has his own problems with FSPlanet along the same lines) has also now written to most of the same people that I did.

If anyone else who has had their licence ignored by FSPlanet would like to do the same, please e-mail me and I'll forward the list of e-mail addresses on.

I think Blair would be quite pleased with the distraction, after all he organised a debate about Deirdre from Coronation Street in the House once! Something to do with her going to prison!
Here is a great idea, lets tell the CIA that this guy works for Al Qaeda, and is stealing from Americans and Brits (technically correct). Bet he gets a bomb-o-gram in the morning! Just kidding, wanted to make everyone smile . As long as we stick to legal actions (and action), then this guy will be out of business hopefully along with his ISP soon.
Eventually cowboys like this get run out of town, I've seen it before with other internet 'services'!

Ozzy

Really you are turning very silly - - the fault of your stupidity is all of the Webmaster of Simviation - - wich is doing absolutely nothing to stop this rubbish going on!!  If you consider yourself a family  -  here a simviation - - then you are a disfunctional family - after those disgusting and really stupid posts at this forums!! Come on boys! you are loosing all the credibility!! with those comments!!

balbo

Having fun is ok! and jokes is also fun!  but this bashing at fsplanet - is going on and on and on and on!!  It is getting a bit too much to digest!!  and also lots of your comments are not really reflecting the true of the facts - anyway! I live simviation and stay away - from all this rubbish.

balbo

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As does FSPlanet's publication of files that contravene the authors licences.

Quote:


And which bits are "not reflecting the true of the facts" exactly?

Guess we'll never know...

Balbo, let me make this clear to you, because you don't know what your talking about. For the last few years FSPlanet has been around, Ferdy has taken files from everyone without permission, i'm sure I could point out hundreds of them. But that would be pointless as I'd be wasting me time. Its time to put a stop to him once and for all. It IS illegal to steal files when ignoring copyrights. Your remark about us being 15 years old, you are dead wrong, most of us here are grown adults, you seem to have it out for people, so grow up. This topic has been stiring up for a VERY long time now, and its just now coming into its true form, we are fed up with him, and now we are taking action. If you don't like it, then just don't read this topic. 

[quote author=balbo  link=1047051703/60#60 date=1047224659]I'm not ferdy friend - infacts I do not know ferdy at all. You got fix on your ideas - fine! I've never see any cd produced by ferdy!!  where is it??   have you got any??  and where it is sold??  and how much it cost??

sorry - you are not convince me - ! and also all this for just a panel - produced with sources other than yours software - uhhhh!!  you can convince those 15 years old who come here and read your messages - - but with grow up man - you need to come out with some more convincing argument - and show that you are meaning business - and not just stearup - young simmers against somebody  - - to me you are just an attention seeker and a sad man - which will never get to the botton of the story - with all respect.

balbo[/quote]

I said in an earlier message that I respect the opinions of others whether I agree with them or not.

Pity you don't do the same.

1) Did anyone say you were Ferdy's friend? The comment made referred to your insulting comments and their similarity to those of Mr Serena.


2) I'm not trying to "convince" you of anything. Frankly, it's of no importance to me whether you believe what's being said here or not. The object of my original messges that started this thread was information - not an attempt to persuade anyone of anything. If you choose not to believe the content of this thread and the other 2 associated with it, that's your privilidge.

3) Read the thread properly - I didn't say Ferdy sold anything. Mondalori.com do the selling. There are several hundred W.H.Smith stores in the UK selling Audio CDs by Led Zeppelin. I doubt you've seen those either - you not "having seen" a CD is hardly a convincing argument that it doesn't exist.

4) "all this for just a panel" - it's not about "just a panel". Again - read the thread properly. It's about the unscrupulous, unlicenced actions of an individual who, because of his history of piracy, can't persuade enough people to upload to his site legitimately, so has to resort to uploading the files himself - contrary to licence.

5) The people who's work my panel was based on were all properly credited - what's your point?

6) "these 15 year olds" - This is the point where I've had enough of being politically correct and respecting anything you have to say. YOU are the only one behaving like a juvenile around here.

7) "show that you are meaning business" - believe me, I mean business alright. All in hand..

8) "to me you are just an attention seeker and a sad man" - to me you are just a pompous, arrogant, ill-informed idiot. As stated earlier, we're all entitled to our opinions sir. :)

9) "which will never get to the botton of the story" - Watch me.

10) "with all respect" - What respect? You haven't shown any in your last few threads. You've called the members of this forum a bunch of kids, said the site is "rubbish", defamed the webmaster (and by implication his moderators)  and personally insulted me.

If that's your definition of "respect", you need to look it up in your Spanish-English dictionary.

Quote:


This is just another salvo in a long running battle between Flight Sim developers and FSPlanet.  It is not about "just a panel", but is about thousands of freeware products, from hundreds of developers, that have been poached without permission by that web site. It is all about developer rights to chose the method of distribution of material we spend so much effort creating.

Last year Avsim had to block the IP address of FSPlanet and take other measures to prevent them from sucking away bandwidth poaching a hundred files a day from Avsim.

As to "stearup - young simmers against somebody", generating public awareness about this issue and the acts of piracy of that particular webmaster, is a worthwhile effort.  Fince Ferdy has been proven over and over again to have nothing but contempt for developers, it wouldn't surprise me if he has equal contempt for his site users and does dispicable things like selling his members list to spammers or allowing spyware to be installed from his site.  Users should be aware of what kind of person they are dealing with when they log onto that site.

And as always, balbo, if you don't like the content of a thread or you don't understand the subject matter, just don't read it.

Guys, please try to keep this constructive ,that includes you Balbo, as we do NOT tollerate personal criticisms here!

Thank You
Ozzy

Ozzy - very sorry. My fault. I got a little "agitated".

I'll confine my contributions to this and the other associated threads to relevant information.

Hagar - I couldn't agree more with your comments regarding Lee Swordy.

For anyone that doesn't know, he created ttools - the Mother and Father of all A.I. aircraft modification programs.

My hat is off to you.

Quote:


What if we inundate him with the shoddiest of addon's we can find. Ok, its a technicality, but it is legal, because were just uploading stuff that the site was made for. We could even fire up gmax, then send him flying boxes, spheres and even teapots.

LOL - well I've never heard of a gerund, but in the U.K. it would be an adverb (I think) come to think of it.

Anyway - as Ozzy said, on to more constructive conversation, but thanks .

Man that Jack@$$ isn't going to remove the panel. Do not let him fool you because the panel is still there on the DATABASE AND FILE SEARCH here is the link to it anyways.

http://www.fsplanet.com/04032003.htm

When I test to see if I can download files I get the same thing, but its because it only allows 50 people to download at once. But still having a picture of your product and the info on it is still grounds for this.

Quote:

good, thing to check on a regular basis, also, i think i reminded you before, but remeber to keep that link up to date to the people who you sent the complaint to (the embassies impaticular)

Well, I finally released my new 757, and here is a little of what it says in the readme: "License:

This archive is provided as freeware; no charge of any kind may be made for it, and no changes of any kind may be made to this archive without prior written permission from the author (Richard Barker). This archive may not be re-distributed to sites other than those listed below. If you want to host or distribute this archive, email me and ask first please.

1. www.Simviation.com
2. www.Avsim.com

Under no circumstances may this file be hosted by www.FSPlanet.com or its affiliates. If you have downloaded this file from here, please email me immediately.

Any sites / individuals found to be in breach of this license will be prosecuted to the maximum extent under English law."

Do you think that will be clear enough? We'll see.

Ric B.

Quote:

It's as clear as crystal Ric but Andrew hit the nail right on the head. Honest people, the majority of the FS community, will respect your wishes & abide by them.

Unfortunately there is a dishonest element in every walk of life who have no morals & will simply ignore any conditions you wish to make. On the other hand, some regular visitors to Simviation do not know what a Readme is for & have no idea how to open it. I know this is true as they often come to me for help with installation problems.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm on your side. Your conditions are probably the clearest I've ever seen.
Giving in is not an option in my book. It's always been my opinion that we should not let a few crooks spoil our hobby or anything else for that matter.

[url][http://avanimation.avsupport.com/gif/F-14d.gif]

Ric. There's absolutely no need for an apology. I just saw your new 757 & must say I'm impressed. I know how much work you put into it & am so pleased you decided to share it instead of quitting the hobby in disgust as so many others have done before. Well done................! 

One of the 99.9% speaks. I have flown FS2002 for
18mths  and been on the net for 3mths. Not knowing
what else to do I read EVERYTHING. The more I read
the more appreciation I had for those who choose
to design all this addon freeware. I have spent years
of my life providing for the enjoyment of others and
know one of the biggest rewards is sometimes a shake of the hand and a quiet thank you. I've also had to
fight to retain that enjoyment for others. So here's
a handshake and big THANKYOU and don't drop
your copyrights.