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people who make addons read this. (Read 349 times)
Feb 25th, 2003 at 9:03pm

KennyJC   Offline
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ok so firstly I would like to say that I'm a great fan of addons that say "simply unzip this file to fs2002 directory and all the files will go in the correct folders" and when they say that, the addons almost always work. However I am not a great fan of the authors that are vague about installing and ask that you unzip different zip files into different folders manually.

I just had to get that off my chest as I just installed 4 aircrafts that dont turn up in my fs2002 aircraft list.  Undecided Sad
 
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Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2003 at 9:25pm

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Do what I do. I always download  new files into a temp folder. I have made a temp folder in my flight sim folder and called it ~FStemp~. When I unzip a new file, I unzip it into the temp folder. Though it might add an extra step, it assures that you wont "lose" an aircraft or a file. From there just copy/cut and paste
 

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Reply #2 - Feb 25th, 2003 at 9:27pm

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There's an aircraft installation tutorial here on SimV. You should read it to familiarize yourself with the aircraft folders.

Once you familiar with everything, you won't need instructions, you will know where everything goes
 
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Reply #3 - Feb 25th, 2003 at 9:29pm

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It's a long standing argument as to which method is preferable.

For people not terribly familiar with the "innards" of FS2002 file structure, an auto-install is great.

However, there are potential weaknesses with it. For example, an older panel (and they all become older eventually) might contain gauges that are older versions of ones you already have (GPS is a common one). If you unzip into folders overwriting your newer version, you're stuck.

Some add-ons , my Baron Panel being an example, have more than one option for installation - the panel.cfg in my case.

To provide an auto-installing zip file, I'd have had to have made 2 - doubling the size of the download.

In my opinion, the onus is on the add-on authors to provide CLEAR instructions for how to install their files. If they assume that the people who are downloading are doing so for the first time, and no nothing about add-on file installation, they wouldn't go far wrong and the end user would have a much easier life.
 

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Reply #4 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 7:56am

WebbPA   Ex Member
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I do something like loomex does.  I have a folder My Download Files\Unzipped.  Every file I unzip goes into the same folder so I never have to look for a folder to unzip into or remember I whether cleaned it out afterwards.

If I see a file called setup.exe, or similar, I use an uninstall utility so I can tell what it does and restore if desired.

In credit to the addon authors most of them do provide clear instructions on installation, so much so that it gets boring reading the same "unzip to your FS2002\aircraft" folder" every time.
 
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Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 8:46am

Brett_Henderson   Ex Member
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I created a folder structure:

FS_test\
              FS2002\
                                     aircraft\
                                                                  model\
                                                                  panel\
                                                                  sound\
                                                                  texture\
                                     gauges\
                                     effects\
                                     sound\


If the instructions say, "simply extract" to XXXXXX folder,, I try it here first.  

I got away from that after a while, but found the extra step is worth it,, Murphy loves aircraft installation  Wink

 
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Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 9:33am

Mikel   Offline
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I disagree! I DO NOT ever use an auto installation (unless from a reputable payware company like FSD), you never know where your files are going and what they are installing, take the time to learn the file structure of your sim, will save you having to reinstall when you d/l something that screws up your sim.

I hate the EXE installs that when I install them into a temp folder, I have an uninstall icon, which means that is is in my registry, WHY?! I then have to take the extra time to COPY the files over to another temp folder so I can get rid of the uninstall and the originals, what a pain.

Just my 2 cents, but I have an organized sim that I won't have to reinstall any time soon because of an EXE file that was put together by someone that didn't know what they were doing. Grin
 
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Reply #7 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 11:49am

Beery   Offline
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Quote:
"I DO NOT ever use an auto installation... you never know where your files are going and what they are installing"


I agree.  Also, with an auto installation, there's no possibility of tinkering with the files - you have to accept the full patch - good parts and bad.  That's why, when I create add-ons, I like to use a zip program that preserves the file and folder structure.  That way, the average user can easily unzip the patch and be sure of getting everything where it belongs, AND the advanced user can see what he/she is downloading, and can more easily tweak the patch, or delete files/features that he/she doesn't want.

Many add-on creators use auto-install utilities in an effort to make things easier for users, but in my experience, some use them in an effort to preserve a supposed copyright that doesn't truly belong to them.  As I understand it, with any unofficial patch, the ultimate ownership of copyright belongs to the game's manufacturer - in this case Microsoft.  I do disagree with the above post in that I think many auto-install add-ons are good quality additions to the game, while others are not all that good.  Usually the good ones come from those creators who use auto-install programs to make the user's life easier.  But it's hard to know, when faced with an *.exe file that this goal was what drives the creator.

Going back to the original poster's point, I fully agree that some add-ons are needlessly vague about installation, and they usually don't spend enough time configuring their work so that the average user can easily install the patch.  With time, most patch creators will get in tune with the needs of the community, and more professional patches will get released.  In my experience, the patches that are poorly structured for installation are also poorly structured in terms of their workings.  The least an add-on creator can do is give clear instructions for installation, and use a zip file that places the files and folders where they need to be, and with no extraneous or junk files which will merely take up space on the user's hard drive.
 
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Reply #8 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 11:52am

codered   Offline
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I have to agree, auto installers make me very nervous.   A lot of the time I will let it auto install to a temp folder then I can place the files where they need to go.  I will do the same thing with zip files.  Always use a temp folder unless I am comfortable with the designer.  Because that way I can name the folders what I want so it makes sense to me.  Sometimes designers name things that make no sense when I look at it later if I want to modify something.

There is my perspective....
 

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Reply #9 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 2:25pm

KennyJC   Offline
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auto installers are a different matter. I mean the zip files were you can observe the directory structures and just install the files were they need to go. Yesterday I spent about 20 minutes at least, installed one aircraft. The instructions were clear but it was still really tedious, I had to unzip about 10 different zip files and edit .cfg files. It worked, but I would've preffered it to take 1 minutes (which it could've) rather than unzipping 10 zip files within the one zip file Smiley
 
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Reply #10 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 2:53pm

Beery   Offline
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Yes.  This can be a problem if the author hasn't set the zip utility to preserve the directory structure.  There's no reason (if the author knows how to use a modern freeware zip utility like PKzip), why users should have to mess about, unzipping odds and ends individually from a zip file.  You should be able to open the zip, double-click on the readme, find out where to unzip it, and then simply unzip the whole thing into the proper folder.  Then you should be all set.  There's absolutely no reason why it should be much more difficult than that.

The problem is, many add-on creators just don't seem to know how to use the features of the zip utility properly.  Not only that, but a large minority of add-on authors are not exactly detail-orientated.  Just recently I found a freeware add-on that was in a zip file.  The zip contained a readme file, the necessary modified file, and 6 or 7 additional files that had absolutely no use whatsoever.  Judging by what these files were - exact (unaltered) copies of various game files, they presumably got included by accident.  Finally, the readme file instructed the user to unzip the modified file to the wrong folder (which basically ensured that the author's time spent creating the mod was completely wasted).  I didn't dare install the add-on, because if the author can't write correct installation instructions, what are the chances that he/she can modify a file successfully?

Strangely, this amateurish attitude on the part of add-on creators seems to be endemic to Microsoft flight sims.  Other flight sims don't have anywhere near the same degree of trouble with 3rd party add-ons.  Perhaps it's because other games are more difficult to hack.  MS have made their games more accessible to the player community.  While that's undoubtedly a good thing, it seems to create some unintended and annoying consequences.
 
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Reply #11 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 3:56pm

fisharno   Offline
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Personally, I think the safest way to install addons is to keep a folder for everything you download.
Mine looks something like this

FSDOWNLOADS--
                 Aircraft---
                       Panels---
                            Sounds--
                                  Utilities--

And just unzip them into whatever folder applies.

We've all been burnt by the way Zips are packaged.
Better to be safe than sorry.

Al
 
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Reply #12 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 4:25pm

pete   Offline
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We have always recommedned everyone to unzip & autoinstall into a Temp folder ( with rare exception - like FSD mentioned above). It's the only way to do it.
That way you are in control.
& That way you will never have problems.
I never do anything else.


Yes - many contributors to our hobby give misleading info in the Readme -the most common '... unzip into the Aircraft folder in FS2002'  but ......
1. They have given to the community for nothing but ... well nothing ....  That's generous!  8)
2. OK ... they got that bit wrong .... .... mm ... well.. that's life.. (& you didn't pay for this generosity) ... that's why we go to the trouble of making basic tutorials here......  Grin

I, & almost certainly all of us, have been in these shoes at one time & know what it feels like to not seeing your plane in the sim.

But there really is only one answer : ALWAYS UNZIP INTO A TEMP FOLDER & understand the simple main folder & sub folder structure so you can copy the main folder across. .
 

Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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Reply #13 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 5:17pm

Beery   Offline
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Quote:
...but ......
1. They have given to the community for nothing but ... well nothing ....  That's generous!  8)...


I'm not trying to downplay the generosity of add-on creators.  That's not my point.  My point is that a generous gift is only a generous gift if it works well.  If it's a holy pain to install and if it's useless in practice, it loses its status as a generous gift and becomes an annoyance, both to its users and (if anyone bothers to complain) to its creator.  More importantly, if sub-standard work floods the freeware market, users will tend to stop looking for freeware add-ons, and surely no one wants that.

My main point is to urge freeware authors to go the extra mile to check and double-check their work before issuing it.  It's quite clear that a number of authors don't spend any time checking that what they're offering works properly.  That is counter-productive.
 
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Reply #14 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 6:05pm

pete   Offline
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What you say is absolutely right! & in an ideal world the contributors WOULD finish with the correct install info.

But - this has been an issue since FS add-ons (& most likely all software add-ons) began. It's been something that used to keep me & Doug (my ex partner in this) very busy in the Repetition Business.

Those that get it right - great. But even then I will still install into a TEMP folder because it makes no difference in the end.

 

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Reply #15 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 6:10pm

Beery   Offline
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Hey, I like your signature file, but just because you hear two sides of an argument, it doesn't necessarily mean that those are the only sides.  Wink
 
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Reply #16 - Feb 26th, 2003 at 6:17pm

pete   Offline
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Very true  Wink
 

Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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