Simviation Forum - ATC is not telling me when to turn.

Feb 25^th, 2003 at 5:57am

Tomcat61 Offline
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Hi all, I have been doing a few short flights of say an hour or so, and on vfr, in a 747-400.

ATC gives me everything correct, however when I come near to the landing, they put me way off course.

I have the correct ILS freq set, but ATC are not telling me when to turn for the runway.

They ask me well before I get to my destination airport if I want a visual approach ???
What should I say to that, and if I accept visual approach, does that mean I am then on my own?

Thanks again.....Tomcat61

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Reply #1 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 9:44am

liran_bar Offline
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Ramon, we shall never
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Israel

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Hey tomcat...
first of all I believe visual approach means that you will use the visual details only.. (VASI etc..)
the ATC isn't supposed to tell you when to turn.... it only sets you on a comfortable course relatively to the runway so you will have no problem intersepting the ILS or lining up with the runway....

you are on your own in any kind of approach you choose... the ATC will only direct you to connect with the tower and nothing else...

Hope I helped...

Liran Bar, Israel

&&

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Reply #2 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 10:18am

WebbPA Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

I didn't know whether this was a bug or the way it's done in real life but I experienced ATV vectoring me into the pattern (Runway 9, left pattern) then apparently abandoning me. One time I flew 50 miles downwind without ever being vectored to final and I decided it was time to land no matter what ATC thought. After I turned to final there they were, "cleared for landing".

So now I just fly downwind as far as I am comfortable depending on my aircraft and altitude, turn to final and there they are, "cleared for landing". They pccasionally put me in line at #2 but if I monitor the tower I can tell that there's someone ahead of me. I only keep AI up to 60% - I want some realism but don't want to get stuck in holding patterns.

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Reply #3 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 10:27am

liran_bar Offline
Colonel
Ramon, we shall never
forget you!
Israel

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Posts: 583

well mate....
according to the regulations you are supposed to fly the pattern over and over untill you here the "cleared to land number x for landing" it was a coincident that you were cleared to land right when you turned final....

Liran Bar, Israel

&&

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Reply #4 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 10:37am

WebbPA Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

If it's a coincidence it happens every time. And I'm not flying into Podunk Muni, my practice airport is Miami International. But with only 60% AI perhaps I am always 1 or 2.

I crank the AI up to 100% and try it during rush hour and see what happens.

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Reply #5 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 10:43am

liran_bar Offline
Colonel
Ramon, we shall never
forget you!
Israel

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Posts: 583

well great mate!
but if it doesn't work I believe it's a bug...

Liran Bar, Israel

&&

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Reply #6 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 10:46am

WebbPA Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

Everyone knows that Miscrsoft products don't have bugs.

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Reply #7 - Feb 25^th, 2003 at 11:03am

liran_bar Offline
Colonel
Ramon, we shall never
forget you!
Israel

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Posts: 583

Quote:

Everyone knows that Miscrsoft products don't have bugs.

LOL webbPA! Cheesy

&&

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Reply #8 - Feb 26^th, 2003 at 7:26am

WebbPA Ex Member
I Like Flight Simulation!

I had my AI set to 77% and did a couple of touch and go's at KFLL-Ft, Lauderdale. Same result. As I came in from west I was routed to RWY 9L, right pattern.

1st pass- given #1 clearance while still on downwind.

After T&G, routed to RWY 9L, left pattern - (2nd pass) given #1 clearance ("Fly straight in"!) as soon as I was on base.

3rd pass - same as #2.

If I may compare these experiences to Tomcat61, ATC never gives me a vector. I already have a vector from VOR/ILS and runway heading. ATC does tell me where to enter the pattern and does not necessarily allow me "fly straight in".

When I turn to base I am usually (always, so far) given landing clearance. But, Tomcat61, ATC does not tell me when to turn for the runway, and I don't need them to because my instruments (ILS, GPS) will show me.

(PS - MS products don't have bugs, they have "unanticipated consequences".)

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Reply #9 - Feb 26^th, 2003 at 3:54pm

tim l lam 10386 Offline
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Flying isn't dangerous..
CRASHING is dangerous..
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First, VFR in a 747 isn't allowed usually.. tisk tisk..

Secondly, the way VFR works:
You call up tower stating your intentions for landing.. They tell you to enter the pattern, usually at downwind or base.. or straight-in, depending on your position. On downwind however, once your aircraft is abeam with the runway (that's flying parellel with the runway and have hit the threshold line, tower then clears you for landing, either number 1 or 2 or whatever number you're in order for.. Not too sure about base and straight-in..

Thirdly, you are never vectored in VFR flight, only if you request it. And usually, no VFR aircraft fly an ILS approach unless the weather is very bad, and even then, usually VFR flight isn't even allowed at that particular airport..

Once the controller has cleared you for landing in VFR, you are expected to make you're own approach onto final and to touchdown. Only in IFR (and maybe SVFR? i dunno...) do they give you vectors and tell you WHEN to turn on base and such. VFR is all visual..

Hope this helps, and if I'm wrong in anywhere above, someone correct me please..

Keep out of IMC in VFR,&&Tim

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