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New Kai Tak Scenery Coming On... (Read 3040 times)
Feb 10th, 2003 at 9:31am
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
In case you wondered why I've been a bit quiet lately, here's a taster of what I'm working on.

This is taken from a shot by Daryl Chapman, one of the most prolific and probably the best photographer of Kai Tak.

...

And this is the same section taken from my new scenery - it's the apron up on the northwest side

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I'm quite pleased but it's pretty hard work and taking a really long time to do.

Turned out doing the navaids (the IGS for Rwy 13 especially) and the chequerboard was the easy bit. Just hope it'll all be worth it in the end!

Roger
 
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Reply #1 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 11:06am

FSTipster   Offline
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Very impressive! Smiley
 

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Reply #2 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 11:13am

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Well done bro!
 

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Reply #3 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 1:43pm

Mr. Bones   Offline
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wow, looks very nice, can't wait to test it!

i hope my ttools will now recognize this airport, cos like i told you before, now it doesn't so i can't add ai to Kai Tak yet Sad
 

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Reply #4 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 3:32pm

pete   Offline
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I can only imagine how laborious this must be Wink!!
You've certainly chosen a crammed to the inch area to develop  Smiley

I used to have Hong Kong as my default starting point for FS2000 with some great previous addon scenery ... Kai Tak is still my favourite (ex) international airport in FS.... Can't wait!!!
p.s. Looks great so far!!
 

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Reply #5 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 3:46pm

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WOW Roger! Shocked That is awesome. Keep us posted, I've gotta have it. Just got to!

Mark 8)
 

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Reply #6 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 3:47pm

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Very nice
 
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Reply #7 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 6:05pm

jcool28   Offline
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My goodness! What beautiful and accurate rendering. I was just looking for a download for Kai Tak the other day...looks like i've found it! Keep the screen shots comming w the updates!
Smiley
 

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Reply #8 - Feb 10th, 2003 at 8:15pm

daryl_chapman   Offline
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That looks very nice. I hope you like my pics and you may use any of my other Kai Tak pics you need from jetphotos.net or airliners.net.

Just remember that Concorde only visited Kai Tak about once a year and never parked there  Cheesy

Best Regards
Daryl Chapman
« Last Edit: Feb 10th, 2003 at 10:28pm by daryl_chapman »  
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Reply #9 - Feb 11th, 2003 at 5:52am
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Cheesy

Hi Daryl - nice surprise. Thanks for the comments.

What I like about your pics is that as well as great shots of hairy approaches to 13 you've also included a lot of buildings detail that would otherwise have been forgotten. I'm thinking of the shot I've shown plus the other empty Kai Tak pic showing the main terminal. And that pic of the taxying Cathay 747 taken from the (east?) car park roof where I think you said you've spent thousands of hours!!

Some questions you might be able to help me with

Where was the fire station located?

Where did GA park (and Concorde!)

Where was (were?) the flying club(s)?

A lot of stuff that was on the Net about Kai Tak is gradually being removed so it's getting very difficult to pick up this kind of detail now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BTW the other shot of yours I really like is the one showing the whole field taken from the air to the north of the main terminal with what looks like a 340 maybe about to touch down on 13

Roger
 
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Reply #10 - Feb 11th, 2003 at 2:12pm

GreG   Offline
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WoW!!

I'm impressed Roger.  You're definately getting there.  Keep working on it.

Greg
 

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Reply #11 - Feb 11th, 2003 at 8:35pm

daryl_chapman   Offline
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OK, I'll send in some more pics. If I can find one I'll show the fire stations. One is down near 31 and the main fire station is at the junction of B1 and C1.

Garuda DC-10's / MD-11's parked in the same are all the tri jets parked (CATHAY L1011 AREA)

Concorde, parked on the back fence near HAECO and later on the new apron down by the GFS.

The flying club was and still is opposite the terminal (Bay 1) on the other side of the runway.

Best Regards
Daryl
 
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Reply #12 - Feb 14th, 2003 at 7:18pm
Budgie   Guest

 
Well!   

Excepting.... that you missed the very large spider on the grass by the traffic cones

Your repro is perfect!

Wink
 
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Reply #13 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 12:27am

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looks great roger!
 

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Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 1:54am

fisharno   Offline
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Always been one of my favorite destinations.

Awsome Job!
 
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Reply #15 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 7:29am

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I never got the chance to fly into Kai Tak. FS2000 came out before I even knew it existed. I am anxious to get the chance to fly the famous checkerboard.
 

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Reply #16 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 9:26am
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
You guys are a really great bunch. Whenever you think you've taken on too much or bitten off more than you can chew you only have to talk to you lot to get really motivated again.

Thanks a lot and I really do mean it.

Now I need your advice.

I've done the navaids - esp the IGS approach to Rwy 13 with the chequerboard and the markers exactly where they should be so you can do a proper instrument approach 'to the book'. Now I've had a lot of emails from all over the world asking for this because my original 'simple' scenery didn't include it.

My IGS works with my original scenery (which quite frankly isn't now up to the mark) and as it happens, also works with Thomas Kwong's FS2000 Kai Tak scenery which at present is the best available (my new one should be even more accurate).

Now my new scenery will be a while coming out - quite a few weeks more - so what should I do?

I wanted to issue my new package with scenery, IGS navaids, plus instrument approach plates etc. The question is, do you think I should release the instrument approach stuff separately now, because so many people want it, or hang on until the whole package is ready?

I'd really like to hear what you think

Roger
 
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Reply #17 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 9:33am

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i would wait and release everything together
 

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Reply #18 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 9:51am

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I agree.

You've clearly invested a lot of time and effort into this project. I'd be inclined to have it all up and running as one package rather than release it in bits and pieces.

The flightsim public will, I'm sure, chew it's nails till it arrives, but I've no doubt that'll make it all the more well received when it does.  Smiley
 

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Reply #19 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 3:33pm

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My two cents says bring it out with a bang all at once. Plus it will give me some much needed refreshing time in the 744, I've pretty much been sight seeing in my baron for the last few months Smiley
 

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Reply #20 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 3:52pm
Gene Wilson   Guest

 
I used to fly in and out of Kai Tak as plane captain on Navy P2V's in the mid-fifties.  We'd make them stop the traffic on the road that crossed the runway and taxi to the very end and then back up to the very edge before running up the engines and taking off.  I was always VERY exciting to land and take off at this airport.
 
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Reply #21 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 4:23pm

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Roger please do 1 release with all the whistles and bells, and a newbies guide to TTools and AFCAD to set it all up correctly. I'd hate for anyone to miss out on this masterpiece of yours.

Mark
 

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Reply #22 - Feb 15th, 2003 at 5:28pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Quote:
We'd make them stop the traffic on the road that crossed the runway


Cheesy

Hey Gene

That's a great story. I've done a lot of research now and even I've not heard of a road crossing the runway!

There's a lovely old pic I found that shows a fine old BOAC machine on the apron and the caption says something like 'note the lady and the cyclist on the runway - things were much more informal in those days'!!

Those really were the days - and I really do envy you. It's obvious from the response I've had since I did my first little scenery and from all the very affectionate pics of Kai Tak on the Net that the place is really missed.

I also saw a pic that was posted only 2 days ago that says 'note the open market at the north end and the driving range at the south' - the southern part of the runway has now been dug up and - there's worse! - the HAECO and old Cathay buildings have been pulled down.

Wish I'd had a chance to go there first - better still, had the chance to fly into runway 13.

Sad

Roger

PS Thanks all you guys for your replies. As usual, good advice. I'll keep the whole package together - just have to start working quicker!
 
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Reply #23 - Feb 16th, 2003 at 6:33pm
Gene Wilson   Guest

 
The British had quanset huts very close to the runway so they would be close to their Vampire fighter jets (this was during the 'Quemoy-Matsu' fighting between Red China and Nationalist China) and all the British would pile out of their barracks to watch us try to take off.  We always made it but there were always sampans anchored right off the end of the runway (with their masts sticking up) that we had to climb above.  Another thing we learned the hard way was not park our aircraft with the prop tips over the open sewers that were in the parking area.  The props would create little tornado-like vortices that would suck stuff out of the trenches.
 
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Reply #24 - Feb 16th, 2003 at 6:43pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Smiley

Bet that made your eyes water!

Must've been hell - you'd never wanna do it all over again would you (oh yeah!!!!!!)

Wink

Roger

Since I wrote the above I did a quick search for p2v on the Net. This is the first reference I found.

http://p2vneptune.org/index.shtml

We laugh now but it was no picnic and they were brave guys doing a difficult and important job. Gene, I and I bet the other guys here on Simviation salute you and your comrades.
 
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Reply #25 - Feb 18th, 2003 at 4:05pm
Gene Wilson   Guest

 
Thanks, Roger.  I didn't know about the website.  Sure brings back memories...
 
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Reply #26 - Feb 28th, 2003 at 5:09am

daryl_chapman   Offline
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Here is more pictures for you.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=35046
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=35027
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=35094

I got a cockpit landing on 31 in a Emirates A310 and a 13 cockpit landing in a Philippines A330 and a Qantas 763.

My cockpit landing in the Qantas 763:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=21538
« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2003 at 8:33pm by daryl_chapman »  
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Reply #27 - Feb 28th, 2003 at 1:39pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Thanks Daryl.

LOL the 1st one's ref is wrong so I changed the last 8 to a 7 and.....I got one of Colin's CX 777 pics at CLK!!

I already have the second pic in my Kai Tak file - I think it's great. You'll never see that one again ....unless you're doing a forced landing on the driving range!

Look forward to seeing the new ones

Roger
 
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Reply #28 - Feb 28th, 2003 at 8:35pm

daryl_chapman   Offline
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I gave the direct link to three pics. Should be one more on the way.
 
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Reply #29 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 7:18am
Mark Beaumont   Guest

 
Looks like I'd better start polishing up some of the old Cathay fleet, Roger!  Well done for this work; I'm watching your Kai Tak development work with great interest!

If you've never been to my own little site, go and have a nose about.  It's as Kai Tak-oriented as it can be!

Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumont

http://www.swiremariners.com/cx.html
 
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Reply #30 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 3:40pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Hi Mark

It's really good having you guys over here!

Quote:
If you've never been to my own little site


Grin

Cmon - who hasn't if they have any interest at all in Kai Tak! Great site.

When I (finally) issue my package I'm gonna include the real Plates for 13 and 31 and I'd also like to include the more simpified plate you have on your site for the less experienced guys who might find the real thing a bit confusing to start with. Hope that's OK.

I've had a pig of a week this week (for scenery work - a great week for earning as I'm self-employed) but I hope to get a bit more done over the coming few days.

I'll keep the progress reports coming with pics when I have a bit more to show.

Roger
 
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Reply #31 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 4:14pm

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Howdy Rollerball, quick question...will you be adding tankers, barges, cruise ships etc in the harbor? I think every single pic I've ever seen has had a good deal of marine traffic going in and out.
 

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Reply #32 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 4:27pm
Mark Beaumont   Guest

 
Go for it, Roger.  The more flying Kai Tak the better, as far as I'm concerned, and having them land properly would help!  Take what you need from my limited archive.  Link the site as well in your README, if you wish.

It's incredible what a legend Kai Tak has become since 1998, and flightsim has much to do with that.  It was always an amazing place, of course - I was lucky (or unlucky?) enough to land on R13 once or twice a week when I was based out of Hong Kong.  It was all Tristars and 742s when I was there.  In Cathay, that is; there was all sorts of other stuff regionally, of course.

Kai Tak must rate as one of the most difficult and, frankly, dangerous airports of all time.  There are many airports with difficult approaches, but the issue with Kai Tak was that - should you get it wrong - you'd not only make a mess of your kite and its contents but probably about five thousand people on the ground, not to mention a building or forty. 

There was nothing like watching Mrs. Wong hanging the washing out on the way in.  Trick was not to lower the gear too early or you might collect it. 

I jest.  But anyway, I greatly look forward to your finished project.
 
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Reply #33 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 6:47pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Howdy Rollerball, quick question...will you be adding tankers, barges, cruise ships etc in the harbor? I think every single pic I've ever seen has had a good deal of marine traffic going in and out.


Wink

Certainly will. Trouble with any big scenery project is you just can't do everything yourself, or you'd make it a life's work!!

I've spent ages searching for really good quality macros for all sorts of objects - just found what look like really good ferries but can't tell until I extract and do a trial placement.

Already have some barges which again I've not yet had a chance to try and there are some great cruise ships available.

I draw the line at picture book Chinese junks though!!

Even little details take so much time. All the stairways, buses, vehicles etc were white with yellow on top. The buses I have used are great as all white - I added Kai Tak lettering etc to em - but when I added yellow to the textures for the roof, the wheel wells also turned yellow. Just the way the textures were applied by the original designer. Strictly speaking after a few hours work on them I can't now use them and I'm having to start again with another bus macro.

But it's fascinating stuff and it's great when you create a custom building from one of Daryl's shots, place it and then start the sim and see it there for the first time. I have to say that I've become really attached to and involved in the old place. Just wish I'd had the chance to go there in its heyday.

Sad

Roger
 
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Reply #34 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 8:04pm
Mark Beaumont   Guest

 
<<<I draw the line at picture book Chinese junks though!! >>>>

Don't.  Very rarely, they still ply the harbour today; but in Kai Tak's heyday, they were plentiful.  There was nothing more amazing than to see hundreds of tons of Boeing steel taking off over cargo-carrying junks from the mainland with nothing but sail to take them through the busiest harbour in the world.

Keep the magic ...
 
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Reply #35 - Mar 1st, 2003 at 8:28pm

BFMF   Offline
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Roger,

How much of a hit on frame rates will your scenery have?
 
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Reply #36 - Mar 2nd, 2003 at 7:03am
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Difficult to say at present Andrew. I don't think it will hit as hard as Thomas Kwong's FS2000 scenery but inevitably there will be a hit because of the number of objects. I'm nowhere near finished but FR on my PC is still very acceptable though and I've got FS2002 water back between the taxiways etc.

I'm replacing the terminal buildings so there will only be a small hit there for hopefully a big improvement. Extra buildings like the fire stations and stuff don't do too much.

I've added a row of statics in the area described by Darly as the 'new apron' (see his shots above). I just wanted to see how good they are - Virgin, Lufthansa, Mandarin 747s, RAF C130 Herc, Friendship and stuff. I will probably use a few but not all. When you pan round in that direction FR does drop, so obviously FR depends on which part of the scenery you're viewing and how complex it is.

I guess if your PC can handle O'Hare, LHR etc OK there shouldn't be a problem with this one.

Roger
 
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