Simviation Forum - New small jet by Eclipse Aviation

Jul 27^th, 2002 at 3:34am

DougC-3 Offline
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I have read your post
and much like it.....
;-)
Alabama, USA

Posts: 1297

CNN ran a short piece yesterday about the new small twin engine jet being built by Eclipse Aviation, I believe, in New Mexico. It was shown at Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

It will cost about $850,000 and will compete with the Cessna Citation CJ-I ($4,000,000 Shocked

). Its little 85 lb. engines were designed for Cruise Missiles, and it uses "off the shelf" computer components to provide a control system "rivaling that of the Boeing 777."

The Eclipse Aviation CEO, Raburn, was 18th in command at Microsoft, if I understood correctly. I've been trying to search CNN to get more info on this, but I haven't been able to get their site to work right lately for some reason.

The first test flight will be in two weeks. Normally I'm not intrested in business jets, but this is a cute little sucker Grin

.

Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.&& --- William Sloan Coffin (and many others)

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Reply #1 - Jul 28^th, 2002 at 2:33pm

Northwest 102 Offline
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USA

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Are you just hearing about thie new jet now? They've been developing this aircraft for years now. My uncle thought about buying one for his business.

MIKE (KingairB200)

Fly D E L T A/NORTHWEST AIRLINES!

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Reply #2 - Jul 29^th, 2002 at 12:03am

Bf-109E_Pilot Offline
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North Carolina

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Thats old news bud I was at Oshkosh EAA 2002 just gt back today. All I can say was DAMn it was fun, the Eclipse 500 has been in development for years and is due out 2004 which is the next open spot for the waiting list to get one, also that is when my mom's boyfriend is putting his name on the list to get one.I cant wait

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Reply #3 - Jul 29^th, 2002 at 5:10am

Scorpiоn Offline
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Are there pictures of this thing?

The Devil's Advocate.&&

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Reply #4 - Jul 29^th, 2002 at 9:29pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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For anyone who's interested.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #5 - Jul 30^th, 2002 at 1:03pm

DougC-3 Offline
Colonel
I have read your post
and much like it.....
;-)
Alabama, USA

Posts: 1297

Quote:

Are you just hearing about thie new jet now? They've been developing this aircraft for years now. My uncle thought about buying one for his business.

MIKE (KingairB200)

Like I say, I've never been much interested in business jets. (I'm not really a certifiable wingnut--I'm also nuts in several other areas as well Wink

.) This one just caught my eye because of its interesting design features, specs, and price, though it's really no closer to my budget than the $4,000,000 jobs Embarrassed

.

I think this will cut into the Adam CarbonAero (inline turboprop twin) market because it's about the same price, cruises over 100 kts faster, and has a greater range (CarbonAero range = 1,150 nm). But, since the centerline engines of the CarbonAero eliminate asymmetric thrust control problems, it's claimed that insurance companies will cover pilots with much less experience than required for a conventional twin.

I don't have the full specs of the Adam in front of me, buy I notice that it's max takeoff wt is a whopping 1600 pounds greater than that of the Eclipse. Maybe some of you wingnuts will explain the full significance of that to me--it seems a bit excessive ??? Tongue

. I know I'm sort of comparing apples to oranges here, but I think they're aimed at similar markets. I think I can count on you to correct me if I'm wrong Grin

.

Cheers,
Doug

Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.&& --- William Sloan Coffin (and many others)

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Reply #6 - Jul 30^th, 2002 at 4:10pm

Bf-109E_Pilot Offline
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North Carolina

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Here are a few pictures of this beautiful machine.

For more ifo go here:
http://www.eclipseaviation.com/

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Reply #7 - Jul 30^th, 2002 at 7:31pm

Jaffa Offline
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What the...?
New York

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And when is someone building one for FS? Roll Eyes

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Reply #8 - Jul 31^st, 2002 at 2:34pm

Bf-109E_Pilot Offline
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North Carolina

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Search at AVSIm theres one there not to high quality but its pretty nice, black and gold though.

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Reply #9 - Jul 31^st, 2002 at 9:47pm

Blade Offline
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Annapolis, MD

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jeez, that cockpit really puts the meaning on a glass cockpit, there isnt one analog gague on it, looks more like a VC from FS2002 lol Wink

&&&&Dell 4550&&P4 2.53Ghz &&512MB DDR SDRAM&&GeForceFX 5900 129MB&&60GB HD @ 7200RPM &&PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN

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Reply #10 - Aug 1^st, 2003 at 10:34pm

Citationpilot Offline
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Posts: 114

Dumb idea. Here's what will happen. Low time people with money will buy a one and end up killing themselves. It'll be the next V-tail bonanza; a doctor killer. Sure this will help the econonamy but at what cost. People may say this isn't a real jet, but think about it below 10,000 250 is the speed limit, so that jet's just as fast as a Lear. You think a 300 hour pilot can handle a lear. Then why would you think they can handle an Eclipes or Safire.

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Reply #11 - Aug 19^th, 2003 at 2:23am

Rifleman Offline
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" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
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Its funny how all the education of today has made everyone forget about the 19-20 yr old kids the had to learn how to fly and fight in "State of the Art" fighters back in WWII......all the kids took to it like ducks to water......Show me a Lear with the torque on take-off which these kids had to learn to handle.......300 hrs for low time pilot ?......you can bet your bottom dollar that most of these P-47, P-51, F-4U pilots never had the grand opportunity to fly 300 hrs before getting in the air and fighting for their lives, never mind just doing ferry work of A to B flight............so what if todays planes have reaction power plants.....they all have wings and if you know how strong they are and how they work, whats the diff ?.......I'm not gettin at ya for anything but the attitude that a 300 hr low time pilot probably won't be able to handle a small biz-jet like this new one.......I think they will do fine..........

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Reply #12 - Aug 19^th, 2003 at 1:58pm

OTTOL Offline
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Fintas, Kuwait (OKBK)

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Ewwww, I feel like I'm stepping in the middle of the OK corral on this topic, but, here goes! Quote:

Dumb idea. Here's what will happen. Low time people with money will buy a one and end up killing themselves. It'll be the next V-tail bonanza; a doctor killer. Sure this will help the econonamy but at what cost. People may say this isn't a real jet, but think about it below 10,000 250 is the speed limit, so that jet's just as fast as a Lear. You think a 300 hour pilot can handle a lear. Then why would you think they can handle an Eclipes or Safire.

This has been proven true time and time again. The Malibu is just another example!Just like the Bonanza, low-time pilots flying into IMC panicking, then loading up the airframe until it breaks in half! The Malibu was thought to be a flawed airplane, with the number that were initially falling out of the sky! Not great P.R. either, in an industry that is already taking a beating in this department! Quote:

Its funny how all the education of today has made everyone forget about the 19-20 yr old kids the had to learn how to fly and fight in "State of the Art" fighters back in WWII......all the kids took to it like ducks to water......Show me a Lear with the torque on take-off which these kids had to learn to handle.......300 hrs for low time pilot ?......you can bet your bottom dollar that most of these P-47, P-51, F-4U pilots never had the grand opportunity to fly 300 hrs before getting in the air and fighting for their lives, never mind just doing ferry work of A to B flight............so what if todays planes have reaction power plants.....they all have wings and if you know how strong they are and how they work, whats the diff ?.......I'm not gettin at ya for anything but the attitude that a 300 hr low time pilot probably won't be able to handle a small biz-jet like this new one.......I think they will do fine.

Apples and Oranges! Tongue

Theres just no comparison! I tell people all the time," there is a reason the Lear is certified as a "two-pilot" airplane. I'll try to track you down next time I'm in the Vancouver area and give a ride, complete with (V1 cut). When you have an engine thrust moment of 3,000pounds, 5feet from the aircraft centerline, on only one side! Or how about an initial climb rate of 3,000-4,000fpm on a hot day, and upwards of 8,000 on a cold day. And that's just leaving the runway environment. You still have to make it back! At the Lears true airspeed of 440kts(that's 7.33 miles per minute!) You had better be WELL ahead of your game. A lot of EXPERIENCED pilots have crashed Learjets, just due to the loss of situational awareness. Do a Search for LJ35&Lebanon N.H. Can you say CFIT! And even if you do manage to have all of your ducks in a row, you fly a flawless flight, and a flawless approach, but at decision height .....oops no runway in sight...time to go to the alternate......A Lear 25 at sea level burns about 3500pph. That's about 60pounds-per-minute, or 9 gallons. The last time I checked, a Cherokee would burn that in an hour! So, do you try another approach, proceed to your alternate, you better think quick! Shocked

.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......

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Reply #13 - Sep 3^rd, 2003 at 8:08pm

Citationpilot Offline
Colonel

Posts: 114

Quote:

Its funny how all the education of today has made everyone forget about the 19-20 yr old kids the had to learn how to fly and fight in "State of the Art" fighters back in WWII......all the kids took to it like ducks to water......Show me a Lear with the torque on take-off which these kids had to learn to handle.......300 hrs for low time pilot ?......you can bet your bottom dollar that most of these P-47, P-51, F-4U pilots never had the grand opportunity to fly 300 hrs before getting in the air and fighting for their lives, never mind just doing ferry work of A to B flight............so what if todays planes have reaction power plants.....they all have wings and if you know how strong they are and how they work, whats the diff ?.......I'm not gettin at ya for anything but the attitude that a 300 hr low time pilot probably won't be able to handle a small biz-jet like this new one.......I think they will do fine..........

Yeah, but the thing your forgetting is that the milatary trained their pilots to be the best and to fly high powered aircraft. They don't have time to develop bad habbits b/c if they do their washed up. I got out of a Navajo into a Citation with my mom and I was amazed at how much faster every thing went in the jet. There is no way in my mind that a 300 hour pilot could fly a jet by himself unless he had military style training.

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