Camel_Moe wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 2:33am:

Complainers will outnumber supporters 10 to 1, it's always that way.

Camel_Moe wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 2:33am:

...and you know all this because you work at Microsoft?

Your statement is just as plausible as me saying "Microsoft upper management was really disappointed with the direction ACES was taking Flight Simulator so they made the hard decision to scrap the Flight Simulator series, bring in a new team and start completely from scratch."

The only value of the Avsim poll is it gives us a snapshot of the opinions of the people who bothered to take the poll.

cheers,
Joe

JoBee wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 11:11am:


Pessimistic at best, convenient, often uttered by those whose game is getting the bashing, and even true in many cases, but by far and away not always that way.

JoBee wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 11:11am:



   Well, I'm starting to get the feeling this is "feeding the troll", but what the heck. The first part:
The vast majority of what support I do see, regardless of who is doing it, seems to be based off the notion that Flight will become "FS11", in a year or two.....

    That would be an example of personal opinion through careful observation of multiple sites, not limited to, but including Avsim, MS Flight's official site, numerous comment sections of numerous reviews, and various other gamer sites like IGN, and FS sites like this one. Basically I've been visiting other sites just have you have previously suggested to another member, and have been doing so since flight was first announced. Don't need a MS paycheck for that. Like I said, it's more of a recreational sport for when the arthrits keeps me awake, and like any sport, it's best to know the teams.

Now, the second part:
....and completely disregards the notion that FS11 is exactly what MS does not want to do. If it was, they wouldn't have canned Aces, wouldn't have sold the remains of the FS series to Lockheed, wouldn't have tried to pass Flight off as a "reboot", and nobody would be having these discussions because we'd be talking about FS11 instead.

    Well, lets see. Aces was working on FS11, and MS decided to cancel it, announced they were cancelling it, sold the remains of the MSFS as we know it to another company, and well, fired most of Aces, the only people on staff with a clue how to make FS as we know it.
    The end result is Flight isn't FS11. It's not even FS. It's just F, on purpose, and as MS has publicly explained, repeatedly, because they don't want it to be the next MSFS. They want it to be something new and different, and they stress "a game", not a sim.
   I suspect people aren't giving you the links to all this because your response to everything seems to be that anything you don't agree with is automatically rendered invalid regardless of evidence anyway. Kinda takes the motivation out of digging up the links. But what the heck, here is at least one of Josh Howard himself telling us that other than Flight otherwise supposedly surpassing FS in complexity of base simulation, they don't want FS11,  and we aren't getting FS11, the world, transatlantic flights, or much of anything else, save a few trinkets, that would make MSF into a MSFS: http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&folder=/AVSI...
What any part of my post has to do with the plausibility of any of your previous statements, i wouldn't dare to speculate. However, I've told you what MS/JH has said, as others have done before me in this thread, so unless you consider Josh Howard to be in the habit of saying implausible things, I do not believe plausibility in my relay of the information is the issue.
  On a side note,  I suppose firing Aces could have left job openings I could have applied for, but nope, not interested, so still not getting  a check from MS.

JoBee wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 11:11am:


   Spoken like a true politician. "It doesn't support my position, so the poll is wrong....."
    What it shows is exactly what I have previously stated. A majority of simmers are at best "sitting on the fence" or otherwise meh towards flight. If you want to argue that Flight's supporters couldn't be bothered to support it for the poll, that's your perogative, but one would have to wonder why they wouldn't. Indeed that would make the "sitting on the fence" crowd oddly motivated.
  As for the posts themselves, not what I would call overwhelming proof of a notable cadre of support. Today, as many days that I read Avsim, they are mostly trending towards the luke warm to somewhat critical side. I often get the feeling of vultures waiting quite frankly.
However,  I have not said that one cannot find simmers that like Flight. Indeed one can. What I have said is mostly I personaly find fence sitters, and people that have otherwise backed away to be in the largest numbers, and that a common theme is some kind of idea that despite MS/JH outright dissmissing the idea, Flight is going to turn into MSFS11.  Something they are actively trying to get through people's heads is not the plan.

It's great to see some intelligent debate about all this.

VERY welcome .... & much as I'd like to throw in my 2c I won't right now  .....

Differing viewpoints & freedom of expression is what a 'free world' is all about.


Keep up the great work guys! 

That's why I get the troll feeling, but hold on that for a second...
Here's the reason: You take one vauge PR qoute to throw back, and ignore the whole rest of the article that says exactly why your not getting the next FS from flight, probably not at all in fact, what the plans are instead, and even goes so far has to explain that most such desires the simmers express are in such a minority in relation to the plan as to be  almost totaly discounted on the spot.
Since almost everything people have been saying in relation to MS/JH's actual expressed intentions, the path forward from here on out, and the idea that we are not getting much of what people are still holding out hope for, if any of it, has in one way or another come from JH, it's not guesses and opinions. This all comes from post release interviews, trying to counter what absolutely was a mess of guesses and opinions before release. Guesses and opinions that were primarily due to MS overall hush hush about details combined with vauge statements that it would cater to the most experienced simmers and the like. Statements, that to much of the sim world, meant entirely different features than what were released, and features the have allready been publicly discounted as extremely unlikely to no chance at all.
   In just one aspect, in that interview alone, JH even tells us the planned DLC rollout as per data collected to date:
"I can say that our current approach is to deliver about an airplane a month, and 3 to 4 expansions a year, as well as a variety of other kinds of content at various cadences.", as well as later stating, "There are many magnificent places to fly on this planet, and over time we look forward to offering more and more of them, but don’t feel the need to offer all of them."  The latter when asked about creating the whole world.
  Yet many still seem to think we are getting the world, and in much less time. Many will support flight as long as they still think they will get such things, and many will support Flight only because they believe they will get such things. It's those that I often find myself scracthing my head over, given often times they also insist MS hasn't made it clear such additions are not where flight is headed, when quite the opposite, they have made it very clear.
Sure, MS may sway a little here and there on various points, but the problem is they've allready written off most of the community desires has being of minimal to no importance, and are working hard to make that clear going forward. From an overall market standpoint, it may be a valid course, but it doesn't lend itself towards a trend of supporting the desires of what they vocally consider a very small portion of the overall market, with desires they repeatedly state they don't think sync with the main market.
    So if it's not your intention to Troll, my appologies, but as you apparently can't understand how the rest of us can possibly know MS's plans, I am sure I am not the only one that can't understand how you could possibly have read anything that has come directly from MS without getting the message.
    Almost everything you want to know is right there. Burried a little in the PR "peace, luv, and the rabid minority don't count" in places, i'll grant you, but it's there. And they're pretty straight forward about dismissing much of what many are holding out hope for in the sim world.
    I'm not saying you have to agree with everything. There is a little room for some interpretation, and mabey a little hope here and there even. 3PD DLC comes to mind, allthough I'm not going to bet on the details just yet myself.
    But all that said, has it looks now, it's has if we showed you a picture of blue sky, and you just told us it were not true, you don't see any sky at all, and even if there is indeed a picture of sky, we're all just guessing it's blue. Switch shoes and tell me that put into my perspective, you wouldn't be a bit a bit suspicious of being trolled.

Hehe, anyway, has for the 1185 simmers thing, perhaps I should have said of the majority of simmers that cared enough about flight to form an opinion, and express it.
     That's the thing about polls, they're a sampling by nature. Still, a straightforward poll such as that is very good at showing trends. A positive way to look at it also is to note that the absolute negative demographic, the guys that absolutely refuse to touch flight, are very much a minority.

alrot wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:


lolololol

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So your saying people who don't like Flight are just making up what their saying. Spoken like a true Politician Joe.

"I don't like what their saying so it's not true."

We do have links but you would just ignore them.

rodericksnr wrote on Mar 26^th, 2012 at 6:41pm: