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AI and Mission Builder (Read 593 times)
Mar 28th, 2011 at 9:12am

Pepelyayev   Offline
Colonel
Fly FS

Posts: 27
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Hi

Some questions about the AI and some parameters with the mission builder. In the stock game there are some planes configured as AI: C-47, B-25, the original Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar, etc.
How change the combat model,the reactions of a AI model(code 2 with the AirEd)and changing this one to 0, as flyable model?

In the stock game you fight with your A6M2 againts F4F Wildcats and this planes are also flyable models(code 0) and not something like AI_F4F Wildcat(code 2).The thing work fine as expected.

Is the quality, maneuvers, tactics of the AI encrypted in the MDL of each model or is a default one encrypted in the sim and the other parameters, defined editing the dificulty of the mission and the quality of the enemy pilots(Rookie, veteran, Ace?

In other words: If I set a mission in Korea with my flyable MiG-15bis againts 4 F-86A-5 Sabre also flyables(code 0)can expected the same comportament and reactions as againts 4 F-86A-5 Sabre configured as AI(code 2)?

With the Mission Builder in a typical mission Fighter vs Fighter(MiG-15 againts F-86A-5 for example): wich is the more right order : Intercept or Fighter Sweep?

Intercept for the MiGs work fine. In general I set six waypoint for this type of mission. Take off. Waypoint 1: grouping(so 10nm from Antung, 8000 ft with 250 kts)ORDER TURN. Waypoint 2 over the Yalu and the starting point of the patrol ORDER INTERCEPT. Waypoint 3: calculated after the time, is the point of encounter of the enemy(F-86s), ORDER INTERCEPT, in general some 40-50nm of Antung HDG SE near Anju. Waypoint 4, rely point 10-15nm of Antung with 8000 ft, 250 knts and preparing the plane for landing, ORDER TURN. Waypoint 5 , the MiG in final at Antung, ORDER TURN.

Things good work in this way , enemy time is set to coincide with the Waypoint 3 and F-86s are always there, maybe a couple of seconds later or early, but always there as defined.

MiG engaged, sometimes wingman score and obtain a kill but the point: the reaction of the F-86s, are not as expected. With the F-86 parameter defined as FIGHTER SWEEP maybe try to engage and evade a couple of minutes; then the F-86 are all around and one F-86(the leader ?) fly to the Waypoint 4(rely point to return to K-14 Kimpo). After that things go very easy for the MiGs, only follow and pursuit each F-86, go to the six , some 150-200 distance open fire five 23mm or two 37mm and go to the next F-86. All that in a perpetual circle over o near Waypoint 4. Not evade, engagement or something other. Is like a Mariannes Turkey shoot. With enough ammo or a good wingman, all F-86 are destroyed in a couple of minutes. Only follow , aimming and fire.And turn , turn and turn at this perpetual circle.

Of course , that is absolutly no realistic. Parameter of the enemy pilots are VETERAN. With ACE , fly and maneuver with more energy but, poor tactics evasions maneuvers and they were a few more agressive.

Exactly for that my question about the reactions expected with a plane configured as AI or as Flyable model(engaged F-86A-5 were configured as Flyable models, code 0)

Regards                                 
 
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Reply #1 - Mar 28th, 2011 at 8:15pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Well, Pepelyayev, you've asked a couple of good questions there.   And I will try to answer them for you as best I can...one at a time...in different posts.  Everyone always wants a simple answer, but that is not always possible.  Roll Eyes

With regard to AIs and Player aircraft conversion and performance, AI's made player flyable by changing the AIR file type from 2 to 0 need a panel added at the very least.   At most they will need a completely new AIR file as well.  Each one is different.  AIR files that work well for AIs, usually work well in a player version.  The opposite is not usually true.  Most player aircraft AIR files will cripple an AI aircraft's performance.  The primary problems are MOI(Moments of Inertia) values.  The values in most player aircraft AIR and/or CFG files tend to be too high...particularly with regard to Pitch.  It takes some real work to create an AIR/CFG file combination that works well for a single aircraft in both the AI and Player roles.  Tongue

I did a tutorial about this.  You will find it here at SimV:  Wink

http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=Wingman+Flight+Tuning&x=22&y=19
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #2 - Mar 28th, 2011 at 8:31pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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With regard to your question about aggressiveness, I have always found that using either Veteran/Average or Novice/High ratings give much better combat results than Ace/High.   (And no, aside from having an AIR/CFG files that work well with AIs, there is no other way to control aggression other than these ratings. Sad )

Aircraft assigned Ace/High tend to be very wary and only attack when they have a great advantage, while Vetrans and Novices tend to jump right in.   Sometimes the Aces just refuse combat.  Cool

It may have something to do with the saying that 'there are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.'

I wrote all of the Fox Four Korean missions personally, and I can tell you that there are lots of unknown factors at work.  I've written some missions that work just like I want them to, and others that totally defy my understanding with regard to how 'combative' both wingmen and other AI aircraft behave.  And I literally spent hundreds of hours testing and tweaking those missions.  That has led me to believe that the sim has a random aggresion factor built-in that decides how aggressive your opponents will be.  Cry

I know that's not the simple explanation you wanted, but it is reality.  Smiley
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #3 - Mar 28th, 2011 at 8:43pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
Colonel
Campaign Cobbler
Tennessee

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Posts: 1184
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If you haven't already done so, I suggest that you download and read Cody Coyote's newest 15MB mission/campaign-building handbook.  I took the file to a commercial printer and  had it printed in color and bound...that's how great it is  Cheesy.

Find it here:

http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=cc_handbook.zip&x=17&y=13
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #4 - Mar 29th, 2011 at 6:12pm

Pepelyayev   Offline
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Fly FS

Posts: 27
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Thanks Tango_Romeo, very interesant. Certainly some maneuvers are encoded in the AI parameters and avoid the risk of stall or go the the limits of the flight envelope can be some of theses. Also, I dont remember to had see in CFS2 planes climbing and dive at low altitude impacting ground after AI pilots mistakes. In IL2 series you can see sometimes this type of "accidents" with the AI.
Righ now downloading the doc of Cody Coyote for the Mission Builder.

Regards
 
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