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Can't get good frame rate even in FS9 (Read 2164 times)
Jan 15th, 2010 at 10:12pm

cgripp256   Offline
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San Diego

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OK.  So, I know I have an old stinker of a PC for FSX and I've been willing to live with the desert like landscape.  I literally run with all sliders minimized and everything turned off and unchecked. 

But I thought, what the heck, I'll try FS9 on this machine and see what I get because SURELY I'll be able to run it decently since it was release around the same time as my current PC and I've upgraded some things since getting it originally.

Here is what I CURRENTLY have:

Dell Dimension P4 2.66 Ghz single processor
1.5 GB RAM
NVIDIA 9400GT 512MB
40GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM
60GB IBM DESKSTAR ATA100,7200 RPM
*These are on seperate IDE controllers and FSX and FS9 are the only thing on the 60GB drive, the rest of the system runs off the 40GB.

I've already followed Nicks tweaks (OS, FS9.cfg, and Nhancer) exactly.  I'm a long time PC/Network engineer and most of them I had already been doing on my PC but there were a few that I did still have to do.  I did the defrags with the OO tool even though my drives were at < 2% defrag already.

If I have the display settings set to High and load up the default KSEA flight (daytime) I get < 10fps (5-8 typically) sitting on the runway waiting to take off.

If I select Minimum on all tabs I can squeeze out 13 fps.

I feel like something can't be right.  I've run performance tests on my video card using Passmarks Performance Test and I can get 150 and 75 for the simple and medium 3D tests but it drops to 1 fps for the complex 3D test.  I can even overclock my GPU and get 210fps on the simple test but the other two tests stay the same.


 
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Reply #1 - Jan 15th, 2010 at 11:28pm

beaky   Offline
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Maybe you need more RAM?
My system is just a bit less worthy than yours, with one exception: 2 gigs of RAM (a matched pair of 1 GB sticks). I usually run FS9 at max settings, with the gpu overclocked slightly, and get a very reliable 38.8 fps with frames locked at 39 fps, even at KSEA at rush hour, except for very rare sluggish moments (probably due to Active Sky updating).

That's all I can think of, as I'd assume you have your FSB, voltages, etc. set up to make the most of the graphics card... and you don't mention any frame-bashing add-ons to the sim.
 

...
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Reply #2 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 12:10am

cgripp256   Offline
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San Diego

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Well, my system RAM stays well below the 1.5 GB available (almost half to be exact).  I have no addons, these are pretty generic installs.

My motherboard is a PCI bus and not PCIe or AGP, which is yours?

My FPS is so similar in FS9 and FSX I'm thinking there is a hardware limitation somewhere I am not seeing.  I have spent all week trying to figure this out, my wife is about to call in a missing persons report I've been spending so much time in my office.  Shocked
 
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Reply #3 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 1:28am

cgripp256   Offline
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OK.  So after several different driver downgrades and multiple GPU performance tests I've come up with the likely causes. 1.  The motherboard - my MB is several years older than the other P4 systems I am comparing it to in performance tester.  They are probably running a better chipset and based on the bios version difference in my GPU vs. theirs I'm guessing they are PCIe 2.0 cards.  2.  The RAM - with the new drivers my GPU reports 1024 MB even though it is a 512MB on the old driver it reports 512MB correctly but I notice that the comparison cards are still 1024 indicating they have the 1024 cards.  This is the only thing that makes sense.  Interestingly enough my basic and medium 3D performance got better after downgrading to a 2008 driver (178.24) but the complex test stayed similar or a little worse.

Now I need to find a cheap MB for a P4 2.66 that I can just transfer all of my gear into, return the 9400 GT 512 MB PCI and get a 9400 GT 1024 PCI-express card.

Any suggestions?!?
 
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Reply #4 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 3:48am

Fozzer   Offline
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Hereford. England. EGBS.

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PCI Graphics cards are completely obsolete now.
The very minimum you need is a AGP Graphics Card (mine is a n-vidia 7800 GS 256 AGP Card).

....or better still, the latest PCIe Graphics card.

So that means a new Motherboard, New Processor, and New Memory...in other words....a New Computer..... Shocked...!

My ancient system which runs FS 2004 flat out, smoothly, with all the sliders Maxed, at a LOCKED 20 FPS...>>>

Fozzer's bits:
Desktop case.
Motherboard: Gigabyte. GA7-400 S-L. (AGP and Socket A).
Processor: Socket A. AMD Athlon Thoroughbred 2600 MMX (2.1 GHz).
Graphics: AGP. n-Vidia Winfast 7800GS 256 MB.
Memory: 2 GB.
Power: 700 Watt. Storm PSU.
Sound: Creative Labs. Soundblaster 1024 Live!
Monitor: Philips 15" 170C.

Copes with FS 2004 wonderfully.... Smiley...!

If I wanted to upgrade anything in the above system now, it would involve a COMPLETE rebuild!

Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004...FS Navigator... Cool...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #5 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 4:40am

ozzy72   Offline
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Madsville

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Cgripp, silly question but what programs are running in the background whilst you're running FS?
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #6 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 8:37am

ShaneG   Offline
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MSFS performance is mostly dependant on CPU speed and RAM.

A good GPU does help , but it's probably the least important of the three.

Your GPU is fine here, if you can get a 756Mb 8800 series card, you'll be even happier.  2-3 Gb of fast RAM , and a reasonably quick CPU,  (2.8Ghz or higher preferably ) are the tickets to happiness with FS9.
With these things, you could even start to enjoy FSX again. Wink
 
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Reply #7 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 9:13am

Fozzer   Offline
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...actually...

I purchased my Gigabyte, Socket A, AGP Motherboard in 2004, and fitted it with a AMD Socket A 2600+ MMX 2.1 GB Processor, a truly ancient system by today's standards, but over the intervening years the greatest improvements in quality and smoothness have been in upgrading the Graphics Card containing more on-board Graphics Memory, with the original AMD Socket A, 2.1 GB processor remaining the same!

The change from an AGP  nVidia 4200 64 MB, to an AGP nVidia 6600 128 MB to my present AGP 7800 GS 256 MB (the fastest of the AGP series) gave a massive improvement all round, each time!

At the moment, with my present (Ancient) system, Processor and AGP GPU, FS 2004 runs smoothly in all areas with all the sliders Maxed... Smiley...!

I gather the Processor speed is more important in the FSX version... Wink...!

The nice thing about FS 2002/FS 2004 is that it will run successfully on even the most lowly of Computer systems at minimal cost!

My old system as it is, even runs FSX satisfactorily with most of the sliders wound up!... Kiss...!

Paul...avoiding another unnecessary up-grade... Wink... Wink...!

P.S....like Ozzy mentioned, just make sure you haven't got any other process running in the background, slowing the Sim down!
...and LOCK the frame rate to 20/25 FPS max!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #8 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 9:41am

ShaneG   Offline
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The graphics of FS are pretty spartan by most gaming standards, thus why GPU's aren't the most important part.
CPU speed & RAM are needed to perform the mind boggling calculations needed, and if you're flying anything fast and high, with lots of AI traffic and cloudy skies, this will become apparent.

Those who only fly low & slow, with little or no traffic, and clear skies with limited visibility, can get by on much slower systems, and be perfectly satisfied.

When FS-(9 or X) is running, your CPU is having to:

-manage your position on the Earth
-manage wind & weather conditions, and how they affect your plane
-manage AI traffic within a 40nm radius of your plane
-handle ATC for you and the AI
-determine which textures, mesh, and landclass files need to be displayed

All the GPU has to do is render some textures.

That's a ton of things for the CPU to handle, and more RAM takes a bit of the load off. 
The faster and higher you get, the harder and faster your CPU must run to keep up.
 
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Reply #9 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 10:16am

Fozzer   Offline
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Hereford. England. EGBS.

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cgripp's Computer specification looks reasonably adequate to me, with perhaps another 512 MB of memory fitted to make 2GB Min, to run FS 2004 maxed under most flying conditions, with occasional slow-downs in busy areas.
A spot of reducing selected sliders in certain graphics areas should make the experience enjoyable enough.
Careful custom Weather selection (cloud density, visible distance, draw distance, etc), reduced the amount of AI aircraft running, and accepting the inevitable slow-down around busy Airfields, should cure most annoyances... Wink...!

And don't expect miracles!...I don't!....Wink... Grin...!

Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004 (FSX)...FS Nav....A happy Bunny with money stored safely in my pocket... Grin...!


« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2010 at 12:49pm by Fozzer »  

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #10 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 11:52am

ShaneG   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Jan 16th, 2010 at 10:16am:
cgripp's Computer specification looks reasonably adequate to me, with perhaps another 512 MB of memory fitted to make 2GB Min, to run FS 2004 maxed under most flying conditions, with occasional slow-downs in busy areas.
A spot of reducing selected sliders in certain graphics areas should make the experience enjoyable enough.
Careful custom Weather selection (cloud density, visible distance, draw distance, etc), reduced the amount of IA aircraft running, and accepting the inevitable slow-down around busy Airfields, should cure most annoyances... Wink...!

And don't expect miracles!





Agreed. With the extra RAM, realistic expectations for your system,and a bit of trial & error with the sliders, you can find a happy balance .
Smiley
 
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Reply #11 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 12:18pm

Romflyer   Offline
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Canada

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Well I have basically the same computor  Roll Eyes and my performance isn't much better, the bottom line is that an old pci graphics card doesn't have the ..... Poop! to get it done. So Cgripp, just like you I have to......suck it up, and keep your expectation's down on what to expect from a 5 yr old machine, or dust off the wallet and buck-up for new rig.......in the mean time turn traffic off and keep the weather CAVOK 8 -)  And you should be able get close to 20 fps
 
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Reply #12 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 1:15pm

Fozzer   Offline
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An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861
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I have both FS 2004 (and FS '98/2000/2002) and FSX, and the thing I really, REALLY love about FS 2004, is the ability to have enormous fun with the most basic of computers!
A little twiddle here and there with the sliders, etc. works wonders!.

For anyone who is struggling and getting frustrated and disappointed with their efforts in getting FSX to run "nicely"on their computer, and unable/worried about have to spend lots of money on an upgrade, do give FS 2004 a try....it can be found at a bargain price now, and is well worth a try-out...and at least it will get you up in the air with no difficulty!.... Kiss...!

Keep both FSX and FS 2004 ready for your Hard Drive... Smiley...!

Paul...G-BPLF....FS 2004/FSX.... Smiley...!

...and....within seconds, and a couple of Mouse clicks, you can join all the other Multiplayer Flight Simmers on the Net.... Smiley...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #13 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 1:45pm

JoBee   Offline
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I also have experience with a PCI equipped PC.

That is the bottleneck in the system.

Doesn't matter what other upgrades you make, nothing will help.

The CPU does all the work in FS9, then feeds it to the GPU.

With PCI, you are trying to shove an elephant through a pin hole.

Start saving your money for a new PC.

cheers,
Joe
 

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Reply #14 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 3:51pm

757200ba   Offline
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Florida

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Well i have to agree with JoBee.We know sometimes PCI EX. fights to stay ok with FS.Now PCI its almost a miracle.Tweaking migh improve abit, but honestly you need to update your system.Or you could try fs2002, not that it will be a great diference in terms of performance boost , but some you will.
 
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