Simviation Forum - Considering a Vans aircraft

Jun 28^th, 2009 at 7:40pm

DaveSims Offline
Colonel
Clear Lake, Iowa

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Posts: 2453

I keep thinking about building an RV. I am still trying to decide between a -7 or -8. I was wondering if anyone on here has any ideas. Both myself and my girlfriend are not small people, so I don't know how we'd fit in a side by side. We have several here at the airport, and probably should go try it. I think I'd like the tandem seat better, feels more sporting. But then its a size issue too. I would primarily use the plane for local hops with the occasional cross-country.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #1 - Jun 29^th, 2009 at 8:59am

beaky Offline
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Newark, NJ USA

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They are both great airplanes... if elbow room is an issue for you with the 7, just check the dimensions (I think the website has cabin dimensions listed), set up two chairs at the distance specified, and see how you fit. Grin

Or better yet, find a 7 and an 8 you can sit in... or take a ride in. It is very unlikely that an RV owner would not be willing to take you for a ride if you mention that you're thinking of building one. Grin

The only one I've flown in is the 4, and it is a bit tight for sure. Also there is a strict limit for rear-seater weight... I think the 8 has a little more headroom, but the width is about the same. Not sure about the rear seat weigh limit on that one.

But if you get a ride, you may feel that being a little cramped is a small price to pay... they are just so much fun to fly!! And versatile, performance-wise... the 4, for example, is great for screaming along at 10,000 feet at about 200 kts (you can actually exceed Vne in level flight in the 4), but you can also show up the Cessna drivers by cruising with power way back for fuel consumption of about 5 gph with a still-impressive cruise speed of about 130 kts. They are also well-behaved in the pattern, with flaps that work very well. Not a beginners' airplane, really, but not so touchy that people haven't used them as a first airplane. RVs are probably the most successful kit series ever, well-supported and well-proven. I hear they are getting easier to build, too, which is good, because it's not an "easy" project like a Sonex or whatever.

The bottom line is that there is really nothing comparable, in terms of price, operational cost, and performance, that will give you more interior room or baggage capacity. If that is a priority, you need to look at the "utility" designs that trade speed for all that stuff, I guess.

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Reply #2 - Jun 29^th, 2009 at 9:54am

DaveSims Offline
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Clear Lake, Iowa

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Posts: 2453

beaky wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 8:59am:

They are both great airplanes... if elbow room is an issue for you with the 7, just check the dimensions (I think the website has cabin dimensions listed), set up two chairs at the distance specified, and see how you fit. Grin

Or better yet, find a 7 and an 8 you can sit in... or take a ride in. It is very unlikely that an RV owner would not be willing to take you for a ride if you mention that you're thinking of building one. Grin

The only one I've flown in is the 4, and it is a bit tight for sure. Also there is a strict limit for rear-seater weight... I think the 8 has a little more headroom, but the width is about the same. Not sure about the rear seat weigh limit on that one.

But if you get a ride, you may feel that being a little cramped is a small price to pay... they are just so much fun to fly!! And versatile, performance-wise... the 4, for example, is great for screaming along at 10,000 feet at about 200 kts (you can actually exceed Vne in level flight in the 4), but you can also show up the Cessna drivers by cruising with power way back for fuel consumption of about 5 gph with a still-impressive cruise speed of about 130 kts. They are also well-behaved in the pattern, with flaps that work very well. Not a beginners' airplane, really, but not so touchy that people haven't used them as a first airplane. RVs are probably the most successful kit series ever, well-supported and well-proven. I hear they are getting easier to build, too, which is good, because it's not an "easy" project like a Sonex or whatever.

The bottom line is that there is really nothing comparable, in terms of price, operational cost, and performance, that will give you more interior room or baggage capacity. If that is a priority, you need to look at the "utility" designs that trade speed for all that stuff, I guess.

I am sold on the RV experience.

We have a 4, two 6s, and a 7 going through builder trials at our airport, plus an F-1 rocket (and you thought 200 kts was cool Wink

) The kits these days are all pre-cut and pre punched, so assembly, while time consuming, should not be very difficult. My biggest decision is side-by-side or tandem, plus whether me and the missus will be semi comfortable in the aircraft.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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Reply #3 - Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:15pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

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No aircraft build is easy...

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #4 - Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:26pm

Fozzer Offline
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An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

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ozzy72 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:15pm:

No aircraft build is easy...

Ozzy is still waiting for a cheap Merlin engine to come up on E-Bay, so he can start building his Spitfire... Wink

...

...!

Paul.... Grin

...

...!

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Reply #5 - Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:55pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

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Paul, I'm busy with my investment portfolio so the next time one pops up I'll be able to buy it...... failing that Rogar (Hawker) and myself will be doing a smash 'n grab on RAF Hendon Grin

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #6 - Jul 1^st, 2009 at 7:57am

beaky Offline
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Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

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ozzy72 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:55pm:

Paul, I'm busy with my investment portfolio so the next time one pops up I'll be able to buy it...... failing that Rogar (Hawker) and myself will be doing a smash 'n grab on RAF Hendon Grin

Remember what I told you: pantomime horse. Nobody ever suspects a pantomime horse. Grin

Of course, with a Merlin, it may have to be a pantomime hippo. But the same rule applies. Cheesy

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Reply #7 - Jul 1^st, 2009 at 8:13am

beaky Offline
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Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

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Posts: 14187

DaveSims wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 9:54am:

beaky wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 8:59am:

They are both great airplanes... if elbow room is an issue for you with the 7, just check the dimensions (I think the website has cabin dimensions listed), set up two chairs at the distance specified, and see how you fit. Grin

Or better yet, find a 7 and an 8 you can sit in... or take a ride in. It is very unlikely that an RV owner would not be willing to take you for a ride if you mention that you're thinking of building one. Grin

The only one I've flown in is the 4, and it is a bit tight for sure. Also there is a strict limit for rear-seater weight... I think the 8 has a little more headroom, but the width is about the same. Not sure about the rear seat weigh limit on that one.

But if you get a ride, you may feel that being a little cramped is a small price to pay... they are just so much fun to fly!! And versatile, performance-wise... the 4, for example, is great for screaming along at 10,000 feet at about 200 kts (you can actually exceed Vne in level flight in the 4), but you can also show up the Cessna drivers by cruising with power way back for fuel consumption of about 5 gph with a still-impressive cruise speed of about 130 kts. They are also well-behaved in the pattern, with flaps that work very well. Not a beginners' airplane, really, but not so touchy that people haven't used them as a first airplane. RVs are probably the most successful kit series ever, well-supported and well-proven. I hear they are getting easier to build, too, which is good, because it's not an "easy" project like a Sonex or whatever.

The bottom line is that there is really nothing comparable, in terms of price, operational cost, and performance, that will give you more interior room or baggage capacity. If that is a priority, you need to look at the "utility" designs that trade speed for all that stuff, I guess.

I am sold on the RV experience.

We have a 4, two 6s, and a 7 going through builder trials at our airport, plus an F-1 rocket (and you thought 200 kts was cool Wink

) The kits these days are all pre-cut and pre punched, so assembly, while time consuming, should not be very difficult. My biggest decision is side-by-side or tandem, plus whether me and the missus will be semi comfortable in the aircraft.

I figured as much, but again: try to sit in one of each, and if it seems too tight, take a ride and you may not care. Grin

There are RVs at your home 'drome, so it should be easy. This also means that if you do build one, you will have experienced neighbors who can advise you (and loan you jigs and things).

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Reply #8 - Jul 2^nd, 2009 at 8:59am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

I've seen a lot of those lovely little RV's & flown in the rear seat of an RV-8. I'm tall with long legs & found it comfortable enough. There is also the weight restriction to bear in mind & I was just about on the borderline at the time. (I've lost weight since then.) The one I flew in is certified for aerobatics which makes this even more critical.

This is a generalisation but most couples that use them for touring seem to go for the side-by-side versions while men who usually fly with their mates prefer the tandem cockpit. I don't know how restricted the -7 is for width compared with the tandem cockpit. I think I would take Sean's advice & try them out for yourself.

I'm not sure if there's more room for baggage in the side-by-side versions. This would be another consideration if you intend using it for touring.

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Reply #9 - Jul 2^nd, 2009 at 6:40pm

Steve M Offline
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Cambridge On.

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Posts: 4097

ozzy72 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:15pm:

No aircraft build is easy...

After reading this thread, I checked into this a bit more. It looks like more than a year long project, as I have built a couple of radio controlled planes that took more than a thousand hours to complete.
Looks very interesting though.

http://www.rvbuildernet.com/Default.htm

Flying with twins is a lot of fun..

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Reply #10 - Jul 3^rd, 2009 at 7:25am

DaveSims Offline
Colonel
Clear Lake, Iowa

Gender:
Posts: 2453

I guess I forgot to mention that IF I did build, I would go the Quick-build option which gets the fuselage and wings almost completed and eliminates the need for any jigs.

The more I look into it, the more I'm thinking a used factory built plane would work better. Between myself and the missus, the RV just wouldn't have enough useful load regardless of where we sat, once fueled and with a couple of suitcases. But an RV would be a fun plane to have, and I love the speed and handling.

Dave

www.flymcw.com

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