A description of the plane can be found at

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12874446/The-Martin-JRM-Mars-Flying-Boat-Commercial-Pr...

Observe such details as:

Maximum beam 411 cm. Wider than A320.
Two decks.
Wing 1,8 m thick. A man could walk erect in the wing, and there are doors to the wing passages in front of the wingbox. The rear of wingbox is a luggage hold.

The captain is NOT having flight controls. Two pilots are sitting at controls, but the captain sits behind them, facing left.

The upper deck is slightly narrower than lower. Maximum 4 seats abreast+ aisle on upper deck, except the 5 seats at the end of the aisle. And the aisle is off center, 3+1. Lower deck seat arrangement is 3+2. Lower and upper berths are offered on both decks.

So, between Martin Mars (that did not enter service), Latecoere 631 (which did enter service) and Saunders-Roe Princess which did not enter service, which of them would you rather fly as a passenger? As a pilot? As a captain?

Hagar wrote on Mar 8^th, 2009 at 1:14pm:

Why, page 4!

On the left behind the pilots, there is the captain, and then flight engineer. On the right, behind the pilots, there is the radio operator, and then navigator.

C wrote on Mar 8^th, 2009 at 3:58pm:

I agree that the captain was usually the pilot or vice versa. I believe that Bomber Command pilots usually picked their crews during training. However, although I can't quote sources I've read several accounts in histories of RAF Bomber Command WWII operations where the navigator (for example) of a particular crew was the captain.

Good evening all...

Interesting read.

In my day the Captain of the aircraft was usually in the "Left Seat" on fixed wing aircraft and in the "Right Seat" when flying helicopters in the military and the civilian world of aviation.

I understand now from my serving children that is not always the case, the Aircraft Commander may not even share flying duties on some missions.  However a question I forgot to ask is "does the Aircraft Commander have to be current on type?" and if not why?

I think if I were still in the service and flying something like an AWACS 707 and the Aircraft Commander was not qualified on type or current.  He would be called to the flight deck where I would pull all throttles back to idle at 9000ft and get out of my chair and ask him what we should do next.  Put on my parachute and tell him I was going for help.
Okay maybe I was one rank to high anyways.   LMAO

I am sorry but you do not put Generals in Battleships and Admirals in Tanks do away with your Air Force and paint everybody green.      Canada did that in the 70s and has been paying for it ever since.  Thank goodness we are going back to three services again. Actually four services if you count the Royal Canadian Navy Aviators who had their own distinct uniform.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Flying Trucker wrote on Mar 26^th, 2009 at 8:16pm:

C will know better than me but it seems we're going down that road now.

Hi Doug

The RFC was part of the Army until it was combined with the RNAS to form the RAF in 1918. Many of the aircrew were ex-cavalry officers. It was assumed that flying an aeroplane was much like riding a horse.

The Lysander was originally a two-seater intended for Army-cooperation work. Four squadrons were sent for spotting & light bombing duties with the BEF in France but were easy targets for the Luftwaffe & suffered heavy losses. The Lizzie was withdrawn from this role after the fall of France & relegated to communications & air-sea rescue duties until it found a niche in its most famous role - ferrying special agents to & from occupied France. These Special Duties Lysanders were based at RAF Tempsford but often operated from RAF Tangmere which was nearer to the coast.

Air-sea rescue Lysanders operated from my local airfield at Shoreham for most of WWII along with the Supermarine Walrus for picking up ditched aircrew.

PS. This is the Shuttleworth Collection's Lysander complete with ladder & long-range belly tank taken at Old Warden last year. You might be interested to know that it's an ex-RCAF target tug built in Canada. It's been painted to represent V9367 / MA-B of 161 (Special Duties) Squadron based at Tempsford which is not far from Old Warden.

The forward firing guns are fitted in the wheel spats just above the landing lights. Not sure the Shuttleworth Lizzie has them. Charlie will know. (Note the side panels have been removed in my photo for some reason.) It's actually a Mk IIIA which also had twin machine guns in the rear cockpit. These have been removed to convert it into a Mk III SD (Special Duties) version. The undercarriage could also be fitted with winglets with bomb attachments. See the photo here. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1940s/Lysander.html

For a large aircraft the Lysander has a remarkable STOL performance which made it ideal for operating from tiny unlit fields at night. Not sure how it compares with the Fieseler Storch which is much lighter. We shall soon see as Peter Holloway's Storch recently completed its first test flight at Old Warden after an extensive restoration.