Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Hoorah for Nor Cal (Read 12867 times)
Feb 28th, 2008 at 11:03pm

Dr.bob7   Offline
Colonel
Cessna 172SP a true aircraft
Castle Rock Colorado

Gender: male
Posts: 1404
*****
 
have you seen the massive amount of quality packages coming out from nor cal prop club? wow its amazing the qualiity and amount
keep it up guys  Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Feb 29th, 2008 at 8:21pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
Thanks for the compliment . Nor-Cal Prop Club has many more in the works . There will be a pause in uploads as its time for my vacation
from work. As soon as I return we will continue to post more of these great aircraft that we all enjoy in our hobbie.
Ted.T   & the Nor-Cal Prop Club

www.freewebs.com/wreckerman/
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Mar 4th, 2008 at 8:50am

Flying Mouse   Offline
Colonel
Flying FSX
Somewhere in a bushplane

Gender: male
Posts: 1571
*****
 
I am amazed with the quality of these aircrafts, really. One gets payware quality for free.

I had to double check if it was really free.

Thanx for a great contribution!!!

Donkie  Wink
 

Coolermaster Storm Enforcer Chassis/ Corsair TX750W PSU/ Gigabyte Ga-990fxa Mobo/ AMD Phenom X4 965 BE 3.4Ghz C3/Coolermaster V6GT CPU air cooler/ 8GB RAM Corsair DDR3 2000Mhz/ Gigabyte GTX570 Overclocked Edition GPU/ Windows 7 Prem 64bit/ 750Gb & 150Gb (FSX Dedicated) Sata's/ 23" Samsung BX2331 LED / Logitec S510 Wireless keyboard & Mouse. Logitec Force 3D Pro Joystick. Logitec Headset.
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 1:58am

j76ny   Offline
Colonel
Fly Virtual
D38 KROC

Gender: male
Posts: 175
*****
 
I have to add my compliments to those above for the great packages from NorCal. I had the chanse to fly with Wreckerman in multiplayer tonight and look forward to more flying and great aircraft!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Mar 17th, 2008 at 8:27pm

Imsuck   Offline
Colonel
what are you looking at?
Whitby, Ontario

Gender: male
Posts: 36
*****
 
lol I agree. A lot of packaged aircraft come from the Nor-Cal Prop club almost EVERY DAY  Cheesy Grin
 

"Man must rise above the Earth- to the top of the atmosphere and beyond- for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives" - Socrates
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Mar 29th, 2008 at 12:26pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
I have slowed down a bit with the uploads , work has been keeping me very busy . I will still try to get at least two files each week uploaded to simviation. I still have a lot more to come and hope everyone continues to enjoy these aircraft.
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Jul 7th, 2008 at 2:57am

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
Nor-Cal Prop Club has been revived some old favorite scenery
from fs 9 to use on fsx . We have been holding online fire forest
fire fighting with large turnouts . Scenery looks very realistic
and we have also added effects for a long lasting fire retardent
into a few aircraft such as the jbk dc-4 that Nor-Cal has uploaded
to simviation . You will need to adjust your graphics so as not to be lagged , and will find a tutorial on Nor-Cal's site at

              www.freewebs.com/wreckerman/
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 4:44am

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
Just a thought for the Nor-Cal website:

For most of the aircraft in your library they are shown with the original designers names. Some are not - notably Rick Pipers JP, and Dave Garwood's(?) Beaufighter and Dragon Rapide. At least give them the credit there. Wink
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Aug 3rd, 2008 at 10:44am

DaveG   Offline
Major
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 4
*****
 
Oh yes, Hoorah for Nor Cal.

Horrah for uploading files to their website without obtaining the original authors permission.

Hoorah for missing out half the files so the package won't work properly anyway

Hoorah for leaving out the original readme files.

Hoorah for butchering other peoples work. Angry
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Aug 3rd, 2008 at 5:52pm

Alrot   Ex Member
I Love Simviation.

*
 
This is a personal struggling for me too Dave take a look

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1211877694/30#30
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Aug 5th, 2008 at 4:57pm

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Aug 3rd, 2008 at 5:52pm:
This is a personal struggling for me too Dave take a look

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1211877694/30#30


I wonder which Dave G that is? Wink

Having popped in the the Nor-cal site this evening, I see my reasonable suggestion that at least some credit appears to original authors on the Nor-cal site has fallen on deaf ears...

Roll Eyes
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Aug 30th, 2008 at 4:24pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
Origianal readme files are for previous fs versions .
missing files are minor errors that have been replaced
also for some odd reason the files posted at sim v keep
having missing files with the uploads ?
butcher no fs hobbiest yes .
www.freewebs.com/wreckerman/
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Aug 30th, 2008 at 4:32pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
As another note even though this is the wrong forum
It seems those who beleive they are to good to be called out when they post stupidity have found it to be easy to rid the response by banning the one who sees their lower level of interlect from being able to reply to their bosting of victory . Your stupidity truely shines through
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - Aug 30th, 2008 at 8:19pm

PerrierBaroudeur   Offline
Colonel
I fly from KSFF.
Spokane, WA

Gender: male
Posts: 148
*****
 
Interlect...
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #14 - Aug 31st, 2008 at 3:03pm

Groundbound1   Offline
Colonel
No, I don't work for Mythbusters...
Michigan, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1745
*****
 
PerrierBaroudeur wrote on Aug 30th, 2008 at 8:19pm:
Interlect...


LMAO  Grin

Just looked at the site: (http://www.freewebs.com/wreckerman/singlegaplanes.htm)

I thought the Cessna 177 RG By Brett Henderson was made for FSX. How did it end up there? Huh
 

Specs: Asus Crosshair nForce 590 SLI,
AMD Athlon X2 6400+ w/ZeroTherm BTF90, 
4GB G.Skill PI Series DDR2-800,
Sapphire HD4870 512MB,
PC P&C 750 Quad, in a CoolerMaster HAF932

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #15 - Aug 31st, 2008 at 9:35pm

garryrussell   Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Gender: male
Posts: 677
*****
 
Spirit or St. Louis Huh

So you get a choice??? Roll Eyes
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #16 - Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:45pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
The 177 is a great plane that our club loves to fly .
It is on the site for that reson and also for quick
download speed . Not all files are modified
some are their because the quality is worthy.
We have done alot of work with most of the planes
and you can tell what you will to others thats fine and
dandy . our clubs downloads are in unreal numbers
with 5 to 10000 emails a week thanking us for being
able to download these wonderful airplanes from our
site .  You can continue to say what you will to the small
few who will listen as this will be the last post I will
make here as I find this forum polluted with stupidity
Cool
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #17 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 9:29am

Boikat   Offline
Colonel
Hello!
NW Loueezianner

Gender: male
Posts: 2978
*****
 
"Unreal numbers" is probably right.  As far as pollution, after you leave, so does the pollution.  Coincidence?  I doubt it.

B'bye
 

...
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters
IP Logged
 
Reply #18 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 10:44am

Groundbound1   Offline
Colonel
No, I don't work for Mythbusters...
Michigan, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1745
*****
 
wreckerman wrote on Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:45pm:
The 177 is a great plane that our club loves to fly .
It is on the site for that reson and also for quick
download speed . Not all files are modified
some are their because the quality is worthy.
We have done alot of work with most of the planes
and you can tell what you will to others thats fine and
dandy . our clubs downloads are in unreal numbers
with 5 to 10000 emails a week thanking us for being
able to download these wonderful airplanes from our
site .  You can continue to say what you will to the small
few who will listen as this will be the last post I will
make here as I find this forum polluted with stupidity
Cool


Unmodified huh?

Download size of Brett's 177 from SimV:
Zipped=4.59MB / unzipped=10.4MB

Download size of Brett's "Unmodified" 177 from Nor-Cal's site:
Zipped=4.75MB / Unzipped=12.3MB


Roll Eyes In the immortal words of Forrest Gump "I'm not a smaarrt maan, but I know what "modified" meeaans."

Thousands of people are able to develop and modify add-ons for these wonderful programs we call flight simulators the RIGHT way, Why would you work so hard at making sure it is done the wrong way?
Just for the cheap thrill of ill-gotten "fan mail"? Is your self-esteem really so low, that you need this kind of superficial and meaningless validation?

Oh well, you said that was you're last post......and...............well....SEE YA!

(Welcome to the new and improved SimV, now with !00% less "stupidity pollution"!)
 

Specs: Asus Crosshair nForce 590 SLI,
AMD Athlon X2 6400+ w/ZeroTherm BTF90, 
4GB G.Skill PI Series DDR2-800,
Sapphire HD4870 512MB,
PC P&C 750 Quad, in a CoolerMaster HAF932

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #19 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 11:33am

todayshorse   Offline
Colonel
'Ten Thousand Blister.....'
England

Gender: male
Posts: 2806
*****
 
Ive sort of followed this thread with some interest.

Im still a little confused though. Basically 'Nor Cal Man' dowloads these aircraft from sites such as this as we all do - and then alters them 'for the best - to make aircraft designers fix there stuff/ to make them work in fsx'


Then 'Nor Cal Man' uploads them to this amazing site (Nor Cal Mans Site) where tens of thousands of people go because they have seen 'Nor Cal Man' using these now fabulous planes (somewhere? where?) and beg him for these aircraft.

He sounds quite intelligent - if i download somthing from here or Avsim, or where ever, and it doesnt work or is a bitch to install, then ill maybe try and get it going, depending on how much i want the aircraft. Other than that ill bin it.

Ive a rough idea on how to sort Poskys bewildering amount of files and folders for one aircraft, im not immune to altering a few things to get some textures to work.

But i certainly wouldnt alter major things, then go proclaiming to 'tens of thousands' of people that id fixed it, and here it is on my new fangled site...all done by me, fixed by me, aint i good and heres my email for the thankyou letters, thanks very much?

Oh and some bloke who couldnt get it right first time designed and painted and worked out all the complex stuff, but me! i fixed it for all the good people out there in flight sim land who must hang on my every word and wait with baited breath for my next release!

Is that whats going on?

I know i only do repaints, and yes i get the odd email (well ive had maybe 4 so far -not tens of thousands, not yet anyway!!), but id hope anyone wanting to use them on a site such as that with the tens of thousands of visitors would at least ask me first....

Even more so if id spent months making the whole thing - which ive no idea how to do anyway.....!

 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #20 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 11:56am

garryrussell   Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Gender: male
Posts: 677
*****
 
An when it goes wrong the original authors can get bombarded with complaints because the Nor Cal stuff is not up to the expected standard

And I know that for a fact.



 
IP Logged
 
Reply #21 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 12:05pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

Gender: male
Posts: 3593
*****
 
garryrussell wrote on Sep 1st, 2008 at 11:56am:
An when it goes wrong the original authors can get bombarded with complaints because the Nor Cal stuff is not up to the expected standard

And I know that for a fact.






I certainly hope MY Cardinal wasn't modified..  Angry

It had a tricky brew of texture formats for good FPS and good sharpness and detail.

I've seen attempted repaints ruin that... Tell-tale evidence is the cylinder cooling fins..  they become blurred..
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #22 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 12:20pm

Groundbound1   Offline
Colonel
No, I don't work for Mythbusters...
Michigan, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1745
*****
 
It's all about respect. If Nor-Cal were to conduct themselves ethically,  by discussing changes they would like to make with the original authors of these models, and then, obtain permission to do so, this wouldn't be as big an issue as it is. I think many, if not most, developers can expect certain issues to arise (hence, contact info in the downloads) and if asked, many would have no problems what so ever with someone GENUINELY improving those works.

The problem, is that Nor-Cal doesn't do that. They "shanghai" original works from the web, "improve" them, and upload them for redistibution, many times without giving proper credit to the original creator, and almost never obtaining permission for those mods from the original developers, which is sneaky, underhanded, unethical, disrespectful, and frankly, just plain rude.
 

Specs: Asus Crosshair nForce 590 SLI,
AMD Athlon X2 6400+ w/ZeroTherm BTF90, 
4GB G.Skill PI Series DDR2-800,
Sapphire HD4870 512MB,
PC P&C 750 Quad, in a CoolerMaster HAF932

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #23 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 12:27pm

Boikat   Offline
Colonel
Hello!
NW Loueezianner

Gender: male
Posts: 2978
*****
 
What honks me off is his attitude towards the original designers of FS9 add-ons.  He claims he "fixes" them because the original designer hasn't bothered to make sure his FS9 aircraft is not compatable with FSX. 

The original designer built his add-on with FS9 in mind, and FSX may not even have been on the market yet, so there is no "fixing" because the add-on was never broke in the first place.
 

...
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters
IP Logged
 
Reply #24 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 12:44pm

ShaneG   Offline
Colonel
I turned into a Martian!

Posts: 10000
*****
 
update, rather than fix! Wink It even sounds more polite. Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #25 - Sep 1st, 2008 at 4:46pm

Boikat   Offline
Colonel
Hello!
NW Loueezianner

Gender: male
Posts: 2978
*****
 
I prefer "adapt"  or, more accuratly "modify".   Wink
 

...
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters
IP Logged
 
Reply #26 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 9:33pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
I think "
Updated
" says that I or You did not make the model just
repaired the needed portion for the FS version .
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #27 - Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:30pm

AMDDDA   Offline
Colonel

Posts: 1002
*****
 
wreckerman wrote on Dec 8th, 2008 at 9:33pm:
I think "
Updated
" says that I or You did not make the model just
repaired the needed portion for the FS version .

Copying and distributing someone's work without their permission is illegal, though, and if you have any of their files in a package, let alone distribute it to these so called thousands of people, you could be in some deep feces.

P.S., I saw the planes on your site, maybe use some of that 'interlect' and apply some anti-aliasing  Grin Grin Grin
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #28 - Dec 9th, 2008 at 2:27pm

garryrussell   Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Gender: male
Posts: 677
*****
 
wreckerman wrote on Dec 8th, 2008 at 9:33pm:
I think "
Updated
" says that I or You did not make the model just
repaired the needed portion for the FS version .


You have not REPAIRED

They were NOT broken

They were made for another sim and you have no right to interfere with copyighted files.


 
IP Logged
 
Reply #29 - Dec 10th, 2008 at 1:11pm

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
AMDDDA wrote on Dec 8th, 2008 at 10:30pm:
some of that 'interlect' and


Intellect - I'm only saying that as I had to look it up myself about 5 minute ago. Grin


Garry, I agree. Sadly, as we've found, there isn't much we can do about it. Embarrassed

 
IP Logged
 
Reply #30 - Dec 10th, 2008 at 5:27pm

AMDDDA   Offline
Colonel

Posts: 1002
*****
 
wreckerman wrote on Aug 30th, 2008 at 4:32pm:
response by banning the one who sees their lower level of interlect from being able to reply to their bosting of victory .


C, I know it's Intellect, that's why I had it in between apostrophe's. Let see if this topic dies...
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #31 - Dec 10th, 2008 at 5:45pm

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
AMDDDA wrote on Dec 10th, 2008 at 5:27pm:
wreckerman wrote on Aug 30th, 2008 at 4:32pm:
response by banning the one who sees their lower level of interlect from being able to reply to their bosting of victory .


C, I know it's Intellect, that's why I had it in between apostrophe's. Let see if this topic dies...


Oh yeah, so you did! Sorry! Grin I can never get it right though...

...bit like su(r)prise!

It's odd how your brain goes when you stop writing any form of coherent English in your day job! Grin

 
IP Logged
 
Reply #32 - Dec 10th, 2008 at 11:01pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender: male
Posts: 1000000627
*****
 
I believe some posters should really read - several times over - the most entertaining book - "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves".

 

Felix/FFDS...
IP Logged
 
Reply #33 - Dec 11th, 2008 at 9:03am

Alrot   Ex Member
I Love Simviation.

*
 
I think this thread is still alive not against wreckerman ,its more because of  what symbolize to the right of the designers ,many has being doing this,and freeware designers can't do anything about it , this guy has not evil intentions either and perhaps many give him credit for what he does,

This is a very old thread and its difficult for many not to feel frustrated and post something about it because of what it mean to the freeware world designers.

Wreck learn Gmax its free, its much more easy to get info now ,you can make money and even good reputation too. 
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #34 - Dec 12th, 2008 at 11:32pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
I have been playing a little with gmax and I will give it a effort , But I have trouble finding enough time to get going heavy with it right now . As far as asking permission that has been going on with those who have replayed or where able to be reached .Nor-Cal is starting to turn a new leaf on this subject and will so more so in the future .But for now we still share the work we share with our club with all . I know I have said this before But we are just the fans of the models we used to fly with our old versions trying to keep them alive in the current version . Don't hate me for being a dedicated fan . A good solution to this problem would be for us to put together a fund raiser to purchase the designers fsx or what ever else they are lacking to be able to upgrade . I know that our members would gladly support these guys for the enjoyment they have given us !!!!
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #35 - Dec 14th, 2008 at 11:30am

Dr.bob7   Offline
Colonel
Cessna 172SP a true aircraft
Castle Rock Colorado

Gender: male
Posts: 1404
*****
 
Just think when I made this I didnt know about the whole issue about this and now its a all out flame war
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #36 - Dec 15th, 2008 at 1:54am

garryrussell   Offline
Colonel
Hello!

Gender: male
Posts: 677
*****
 
Hio Wrecerman

I think the main problem with updating by developers is time.

As you found out you don't have time to get heavy and that is alway the crucial factor in freeware.

It take a long time to even convert a model properly, let alone rebuild it

« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2008 at 1:57pm by garryrussell »  
IP Logged
 
Reply #37 - Dec 16th, 2008 at 2:05am

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
bob this is no " FLAME WAR " just opinions being displayed through the forum . In reallity we are all fs junkies and all like places like simv and
the models and so on.. but our opinions vary on usage , but I think other than that our interests are probrably simular . It is a game & a hobbie and Im sure we have all ended up here in hopes of having fun
and meeting others online who are here for the same reasons .
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #38 - Jun 4th, 2009 at 3:26pm

EJW   Offline
Colonel
Lincolnshire, UK

Posts: 2786
*****
 
They've always made some good stuff!
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #39 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 3:22pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
I have noticed alot more updated models here at simviation by quite a few more fsx users . This has really brought alot of dormant models back to life .It is a wonderfull thing to see more and more people getting involved in such a huge community and sharing with others their fix or update so we can use these great older models .
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #40 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 3:57pm

BrandonF   Offline
Colonel
The Future of Flight
Location: Earth...Duh!!!!

Gender: male
Posts: 2296
*****
 
I think Nor-Cal Prop Club does a good job with the updates to the add-ons on their site. I just made them a new logo. It is on the site right now.

Brandon

PS: 500th post!  Shocked Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #41 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 4:11pm
SeanTK   Ex Member

 
Can I assume that this organization is now getting permission from all original authors to upload their work to various websites?
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #42 - Nov 26th, 2009 at 8:33pm

wreckerman   Offline
Colonel
Nor-Cal Flying Clubs
california

Gender: male
Posts: 51
*****
 
We only upload to our site and once in a while to sim v
This is a old subject and has been tossed around all over this forum I was here to only compliment the new files on sim v
 

" Flying With Unity Through Diversity "
IP Logged
 
Reply #43 - Nov 24th, 2010 at 6:26am

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
Quote:
Can I assume that this organization is now getting permission from all original authors to upload their work to various websites?


Norcal appeared to have recently shut their doors.

Seems there will be quite a few happy freeware FS developers out there. Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #44 - Nov 24th, 2010 at 11:32am

Groundbound1   Offline
Colonel
No, I don't work for Mythbusters...
Michigan, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1745
*****
 
C wrote on Nov 24th, 2010 at 6:26am:
Quote:
Can I assume that this organization is now getting permission from all original authors to upload their work to various websites?


Norcal appeared to have recently shut their doors.

Seems there will be quite a few happy freeware FS developers out there. Smiley


Aww, to bad. Cry Grin Grin
 

Specs: Asus Crosshair nForce 590 SLI,
AMD Athlon X2 6400+ w/ZeroTherm BTF90, 
4GB G.Skill PI Series DDR2-800,
Sapphire HD4870 512MB,
PC P&C 750 Quad, in a CoolerMaster HAF932

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #45 - Dec 3rd, 2010 at 7:04am

alrot   Offline
Colonel
Freeware Designers Above
All..

Posts: 10231
*****
 
C wrote on Nov 24th, 2010 at 6:26am:
Seems there will be quite a few happy freeware FS developers out there. Smiley


those darn developers  Angry bad bad boys !

Smiley

I wish to see fspirate close too Roll Eyes
 

...

Venezuela
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print