Simviation Forum - PILOTS AND SIDEARMS!!

Feb 16^th, 2004 at 7:10pm

Flying Trucker Ex Member

Working my shift as a Volunteer at the RCAF Museum on Saturday I had a chance to peruse the three volumes by one author of the RCAF at war.
They arose some questions in my pointy little head.
During the First World War most of the Royal Flying Corps and I am sure their Naval similitudes did as well, wore a sidearm.
It was most likely a Webley .38 revolver. I do hope I spelled that name correctly.
During the Second World War I noticed the lack of the sidearm being carried by fighter pilots during the Battle of Britain.
Now that might be it was deemed unnecessary due to the fact they were flying over Engand and if they had the unhappy experience of landing in the channel a revolver was no match for a German E-Boat.
I have the privilege to work with a Lancaster Pilot at the museum and I forget how many missions he flew but it was a lot. He also has 48 different aircraft check-outs. He only recently gave up his licence before they could take it he said. He still aviates with club members.
I asked him if he carried a sidearm. His answer was no.
Not over Europe, but that was his choice. He felt that if he had gone down what chance would he have with 6 or 12 rounds from a .38 revolver against a troop of well armed German troops. He said it was alright to drop bombs on them but they might take offense and do you bodily harm if you took potshots at them.
We looked at the books showing RCAF Pilots in other Theaters of War such as the Pacific and India plus just about every place the RCAF served and most Aircrews carried sidearms.
To-day all Canadian Forces Pilots going into harms way are armed along with the rest of the aircrew. The new weapon I believe will be the Canadian designed and manufactured 10mm. However the pistol they carry now is a 9mm.
Another point he brought to my attention when I was doing a 40 minute breifing on the History of the RCAF to a tour group was:
WW1 is an American Term
WW2 is an American Term
The First World War is a Commonwealth Term
The Second World War is a Commonwealth Term
I have been conveying this lecture for the last 12 or so years as a Volunteer...It is an HONOUR to get a HISTORY LESSON from the guys and gals that wrote it!

RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: cheers...happy landings

Doug

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Reply #1 - Feb 16^th, 2004 at 7:50pm

Hagar Offline
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Hi Doug. I think this topic would be ideal for the History forum. You make an interesting point. I haven't given this much thought but here's my theory for what it's worth. In WWI ( I use this term for convenience) the RFC was a division of the Army & most pilots were drawn from other branches of the service. All Army officers wore side arms & a Sam Browne belt as part of their normal uniform so it would be reasonable for them to continue doing so. At the start of the conflict the aircraft were mainly 2-seaters. The observer was usually an officer & the captain of the aircraft. The pilot was simply the driver.

I don't think a side arm was ever part of the standard RAF uniform. As you rightly say, the BoB fighter pilots were fighting over their own territory so would have no need of one. The cockpits were cramped & it would just get in the way. I believe that aircrew were allowed to carry one on missions over enemy territory but this would be their own decision.

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Reply #2 - Feb 17^th, 2004 at 12:25pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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During the Great War, another reason *some* pilots would carry a gun would be in case of a flamer. While some would jump rather than burn (Raoul Lufbery comes to mind), apparently others decided that they would save the bullet for themselves rather than jump or be burned.

During the Great Patriotic War, however, I guess it was more a matter of personal preference.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #3 - Feb 17^th, 2004 at 1:26pm

Hagar Offline
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This confirm's Felix's comment. I think that in the early part of WWI the same applied to all air forces involved in the conflict.
Quote:

On the outbreak of the First World War, parachutes were issued to crews of airships and balloons. It was claimed at the time that parachutes were too bulky to be used by pilots of aircraft. R. E. Calthrop, a retired British engineer, had in fact developed the Guardian Angel, a parachute for aircraft pilots, before the war. He informed the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) of his invention and successful tests were carried out by Mervyn O'Gorman, Superintendent of the Royal Aircraft Factory at Farnborough.

Despite encouraging test results, Sir David Henderson, Commander of the RFC, was unwilling to give permission for them to be issued to his pilots. Pressure was also applied on Calthrop not to publicize his invention. With growing numbers of pilots dying as a result of their aircraft being hit by enemy fire, Calthorp rebelled and in 1917 advertised his Guardian Angel parachute in several aeronautical journals. Calthorp revealled details of the tests that had been carried out by the Royal Flying Corps and pointed out that British pilots were willing to buy their own parachutes but were being denied the right to use them.

The Air Board responded to Calthorp's adverts by setting up a committee to look into the possibility of allowing RFC pilots to use parachutes. Although some members of the committee favoured their use, the Air Board decided against the measure. Officially the reason given was that the Guardian Angel was not 100% safe, it was too bulky to be stored by the pilot and its weight would affect the performance of the aeroplane. Unofficially the reason was given in a report that was not published at the time: "It is the opinion of the board that the presence of such an apparatus might impair the fighting spirit of pilots and cause them to abandon machines which might otherwise be capable of returning to base for repair." However, the Royal Flying Corps did decide to use them to drop Allied spies behind enemy lines.

Pilots such as Major Mick Mannock became increasingly angry about the decision to deny British pilots the right to use parachutes. He pointed out that by 1917 they were being used by pilots in the German Airforce, French Army Air Service and the United States Air Service Instead of carrying parachutes, RFC pilots carried revolvers instead. As Mannock explained, unable to carry a parachute, he had a revolver "to finish myself as soon as I see the first signs of flames."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWparachutes.htm

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Reply #4 - Feb 18^th, 2004 at 12:17pm

Flying Trucker Ex Member

Thanks for the responses appreciate them very much.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #5 - Feb 19^th, 2004 at 5:40am

Ivan Offline
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Pistols in WW1: you needed something to shoot the other guy down.
Those pistols were usually loaded with incendary munitions.
That was before they got machine guns.

I think the chances of survival were a bit higher in the Pacific and India if you carried a sidearm. Not for personal protection, but for getting food (shooting animals).

In europe you moslty would come down in or close to built-up areas, where you could find food.

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