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WWII Forum?? (Read 2792 times)
Dec 16th, 2003 at 1:49am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I've been toying with the idea of suggesting this for a while, but wasn't sure of the reception, so I've finally just 'bitten the bullet'.

I've noticed a distinct 'fall off' in the number of topics posted concerning the WWII Aircraft, the battles, Campaigns and the people (compared to say, a year ago).

I understand how the 'more recent conflicts' can still be 'close to home' or still be a little 'politically charged', but WWII is a long way away, and I think there's little or no contention as to the 'morality' of the need for it to have taken place.

I also know that there are a number of people who don't have an interest in Warbirds or the comflicts in which they were sporned. But after all, many of us are here because of the CFS Sims, all WWII based. Many of us are also amatuer Historians of this era.

So, what about a forum dedicated to WWII, its aircraft, the events and tactics, the people and myriad of 'what if's' that may be a little boring for many in the General Forums.
Grin Wink
 

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Reply #1 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 3:00am

BFMF   Offline
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We all know what you really mean Wink

What you want is a whole new board for arguing over what aircrafts were better Grin Grin
 
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Reply #2 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 3:10am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
We all know what you really mean Wink

What you want is a whole new board for arguing over what aircrafts were better Grin Grin

LOL Andrew. That's about right too. Grin

Personally, I think there's already enough room for discussion on these subjects in the CFS & Real Aviation forums. Any more would just confuse things even more than they are already. Or is it only me that finds all these different sections confusing? ??? Wink
 

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Reply #3 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 4:31pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I know it would seem that I am lobbying for a separate forum for discussion aboiut the Warbirds. And yes, it's partly the case.  Grin Grin Grin

However, I (and others) enjoy the discussions about ALL the other aspects of the conflict and the period.  Grin Cheesy

I'm also tired of people becoming bored (and saying so, rather than just leaving), whenever there is a discussion that goes in this direction. Personally, I could turn any discussion in to a WWI oriented discussion.  Wink Wink

My thought is, if we can have a Music forum, and a Car forum in a site dedicated to Flight Simulation (probably Combat related more so than civilian), we should be able to have a Forum about the conflict and short period in which more progress was made in the area of flight than any other period in the century.   Grin Wink
 

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Reply #4 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 4:50pm

BFMF   Offline
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yes, I've always enjoyed the WW2 discussions, and woud frequent the board if it was created. But why limit it to just WW2? Why not include WW1, Vietnam, Korean, or any other war/conflict?
 
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Reply #5 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 4:55pm

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As a closet historian - my definitiion of which is I know enough to sound knowledgable to a neophyte - I like the topics/threads on historical issues.  To this day, I enjoy finding out something I hadn't known before, or if I had known about it, learning a new fact the puts a new spin on the issue.  I would be a "regular" in a History/WW2 topic - whether or not limited to the aviaion aspect.

As a suggestion, prof.  we can gauge interest by prefacing an admitted "historical" topic by the period "WW2: Soviet helmet development" for example, or "WW2: Allied Use of Axis aircraft in squadron ops", "Spain: Most effective fighter - Cr.32 or I-15"

 

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Reply #6 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 5:00pm

Hagar   Offline
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The way I see it, war in itself is a controversial subject. I have strong feelings on the subject which might get the better of me. I think an unlimited War forum might be asking for trouble. Personally I like it the way it is, confined to aircraft.

Scorpion posted a more varied topic on WWII in the General Discussion forum. Even this ran the risk of getting out of hand on one occasion, caused by a perfectly innocent comment of mine that was misunderstood.
 

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Reply #7 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 5:13pm

BFMF   Offline
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Quote:
Personally I like it the way it is, confined to aircraft.


Even so, does it have to be limited to WW2 erra aircraft? There were aircraft used in other wars like WW1, Korea, & Vietnam that I would love to learn more about
 
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Reply #8 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 5:37pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Even so, does it have to be limited to WW2 erra aircraft? There were aircraft used in other wars like WW1, Korea, & Vietnam that I would love to learn more about

Post whatever question you like. You don't need a special forum to do that. If you ever visited the Fox Four site you might have noticed we specialise in the Korean conflict of 1950 - 53. If I don't know the answer you can bet I know someone who does. Wink
 

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Reply #9 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 6:47pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I see the value in all the comments/arguments for and against the forum being specific to WWII.  Grin

Personally, as I made clear in my first post, there can still be some 'politically charged' aspects of the other conflicts, especially those involving the Middle East (even though they maybe, in themselves, quite short). Also Vietnam still to this day, can turn into the old 'moral' debate of "should the US (and Australia) have been there at all".
So for my part, I wouldn't be recommending an 'open war forum'. We could come unstuck very easily.

I think, anything other than the 2 World Wars and possibly Korea, could leave the forum vulnerable to too much 'emotional' debate or opinion. That's why my suggestion was for a specific period, i.e. WWII. Of course, WWI would not be a problem, but the air aspect of that conflict is a bit limited. Korea, as I said, would probably be 'safe' enough.
As for anything more recent, well........my experience is that there is still to much 'division' in the general population as to the morality and purpose of these conflicts. Not so the world wars and maybe Korea.  Grin Wink

I'd hate to see (is indeed the forum ever did become reality) the forum become a source of concern and censor, for Pete and the Mods straighjt off the mark. It wouldn't last long if that were the case.

No, I think up to Korea is the only safe way to ensure politics and morality don't become regular visitors to the forum.  Grin Cheesy Wink
 

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Reply #10 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 9:52pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
It would seem we need a reason to insert a new forum, perhaps our Moderators could start this way.  A POLL.
Yes a POLL of our members by age.  After all we have to be careful how much KNOWLEDGE we release to our guests and members...right...HMMMM Undecided

I would start this way:
AGE (YEARS)                   FORUM PARTICIPATING REASON
10-14                             -interest in airplanes..grade
                                                                         school
14-17                             -interest in airplanes..perhaps
                                       a little interest with History..
                                        High School
17-22                              -interest in aircraft...History..
                                        perhaps looking for aviation
                                        related occupation..college
22-45                               -interest in aircraft...History
                                         probably in the work force
45-60                                -interest in aircraft...History
                                          Buff...Looking forward to re-
                                           tirement and enjoys passing
                                           on his Knowledge to others
60-and Up                          -interest in aircraft..History
                                           Buff and needs something to
                                            do while dunking his donuts

You and I know what I just typed is all BONK Smiley
Why are we worried about passing KNOWLEDGE on about Aviation, it started long before the Wright Flyer and will go long after we are all gone.  The history of aircraft in conflicts, rescues, humanitarian missions. commercial use and the pure enjoyment of the avid flyer is all part of World History and it can not be changed friends no matter how hard we try.
It is up to us the posters to be politically and moraly correct and to try and keep those issues of contriversy out of the discussion forum.
Well that's my two cents from an old rudder stomper.
PS. That dunkan donut thing looks pretty good LOL Smiley

Happy Landings....Cheers...Doug
 
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Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2003 at 5:48pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Thanks Doug, for your thoughts.  Grin Wink

Obviously, my having posted this suggestion is evidence enough that I feel such a forum is needed (or at least would be useful), so anything I say is going to be (and will be taken as) biased.  Wink

However, when you consider the reason we are all here. I mean the core reason, the one thing that led us all to SimV in the first place. I think you'll find that more than half were looking for downloads or Information about one of the Sims. The chances are that that Sim was one of the CFS Sims (WWII based). Hence, a common interest in, at least the 'aviation' aspect of WWII. After all, the majority of the more popular Combat Flight Sims are based on WWII.

There never seems to be a shortage of input whenever there is a disussion about one aspect or another of WWII. I know I learn something every time we have one. It is/was a very interesting period (albiet unfortunate in the destruction and death dept). I, personally would go so far as to say, that it was probably the last of the 'popular' conflicts. (When I say 'popular' I mean there was no 'moral dilemma' or any question as to the necessity for the Allies having to fight and prevail - the freedom of the entire world was at stake).  Cheesy

Of course, as has been said, there is little chance of a forum limited to WWII becoming a place for 'heated debate' or discussion that may lead to the problems associated with the 'less popular' conflicts (and the parties involved in them).  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2003 at 6:25pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Obviously, my having posted this suggestion is evidence enough that I feel such a forum is needed (or at least would be useful), so anything I say is going to be (and will be taken as) biased.  Wink

You could be right Brensec. I've had my say & I think you know how I feel. I would personally prefer less forums, not more.

Quote:
The chances are that that Sim was one of the CFS Sims (WWII based). Hence, a common interest in, at least the 'aviation' aspect of WWII. After all, the majority of the more popular Combat Flight Sims are based on WWII.

I can't agree there - much as I might wish otherwise. SimV has always been primarily an FS site. Check out the number of posts in the relevant forums.

FS 2004 - A Century of Flight (released a few months ago) 13888
CFS3 (released 1 year earlier than FS2004) 6923
FS 2002 (2 years earlier than FS2004) 43149
CFS2 (released 3 years before FS2004) 6418

This doesn't mean anything. Many FS users are interested in aviation history but not necessarily warbirds or war.
 

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Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2003 at 6:49pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Yes, Hagar. Point proven. But I still want one!  Tongue 8)
 

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Reply #14 - Dec 19th, 2003 at 6:50pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
60-and Up      -interest in aircraft..History
        Buff and needs something to
         do while dunking his donuts

That about sums me up nicely. You might like to add              - Opinionated old gasbag. Stubborn as a mule. Likes arguing about any subject under the sun. 8) Tongue Wink
 

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Reply #15 - Dec 19th, 2003 at 8:16pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Sorry Hagar can't add that....I can get in trouble all by myself LOL.

I do see the Profs. point as well as yours.


Happy Landings....Cheers....Doug Smiley
 
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Reply #16 - Dec 20th, 2003 at 12:07am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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OK. Well that's it, for all it's worth. No harm in asking, I suppose.  Cheesy

I am really still having difficulty trying to rationalise how cars and music are more pertinent to Flight Sims than the years '39 - '45.  Grin Wink

Is it just me??  ??? 8) Wink
 

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Reply #17 - Dec 20th, 2003 at 2:09am

BFMF   Offline
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Quote:
I am really still having difficulty trying to rationalise how cars and music are more pertinent to Flight Sims than the years '39 - '45.  Grin Wink

Is it just me??  ??? 8) Wink


You've got a point there Cheesy Tongue Grin
 
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Reply #18 - Dec 20th, 2003 at 3:29am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
OK. Well that's it, for all it's worth. No harm in asking, I suppose.  Cheesy

I am really still having difficulty trying to rationalise how cars and music are more pertinent to Flight Sims than the years '39 - '45.  Grin Wink

Is it just me??  ??? 8) Wink

I think you have made your case. As far as I can see, I am the only one to have any objection. I have no influence here, simply an ordinary member of this forum stating my opinion as you stated yours. It would seem I was outvoted. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #19 - Dec 20th, 2003 at 4:49am

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It would be nice to see a specified forum for military history as I like discussing these topics with people whom I consider friends.  However I have to agree with Doug that there is no specific need for it.  If I see a post by the Prof' I know I'd better read it to keep him honest and it is a matter of seconds to look through the various threads and find what floats your boat. 

Will
 

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Reply #20 - Dec 20th, 2003 at 11:57pm

pete   Offline
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It's a nice idea - but the way I see it is why just WW2? Too narrow a field, IMHO. Then it starts to get complicated ... Vietnam, Korea, WW1, Gulf. So why not just 'Warfare'? Well - that would inevitably provoke flamewars & upset users......
In terms of popularity modern fighter jets get many more downloads than old warbirds - does this mean modern combat is of more interest? Not necessarily - it probably just means there are lots of people out there who like to fly f-16's, etc, in FS.

The Music & Autos forums were created as there were consistent posts on these subjects in the General & Cafe forums & I had a few requests for both from our users .... However relevant - it has to be accepted that these forums - particularly Music - are used. & the bottom line is I haven't seen consistent WW2 posts...

Now as for an
Quote:
Opinionated old gasbag. Stubborn as a mule.

forum ... now maybe here we have a case ....  Grin Wink
 

Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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Reply #21 - Dec 21st, 2003 at 12:53am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Thanks Pete, Smoke and people.  Grin Cheesy

I know the difficulty which was summed up quite nicely by Pete. In the nutshell, WWII is too restricted and an open Warfare or Conflict forum would be dangerous. Shocked

I see the difficulty, and did in the beginning. I just hoped, I suppose, that someone may come up with a viable solution to the dilemma.  Roll Eyes

Oh well, back to the General Forum.  Wink

(Actually, I'm kicking off my site shortly. It has nothing to do with Aviation, so no competition, Pete! - he laughs - as if!!  Grin Cheesy Wink. It's a medical related forum for sufferers of RA, but there are catagories and topics of a general nature for all sorts of discussion apart from the common association members will have, and I will make a special point of having my own personal "WWII history buffs disussion Forum"  Tongue Tongue Tongue).    Grin Cheesy Wink
I'll call it "The cripples guide to world domination"  Grin Cheesy Wink

Of course, regardless of whether I get a good response or not. i will still be here to wave the WWII flag!  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #22 - Dec 24th, 2003 at 7:42pm

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I wouldn't mind a WWII forum. Any topics on the subject are usually quite long. Maybe a forum would help cut down those 13 page topics.

Flying-trucker, I don't want to cause offence but that table thing you drew up there is not at all accurate. I personally have been extreemly interested in aviation and history since I was very small. By the time I was nine I had read Reach for the Sky, the Dambusters and Strike Hard Strike Sure. Therefore I do not see how that table is in anyway relevent. Tongue
 

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Reply #23 - Dec 24th, 2003 at 11:53pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I must admit that, as Woody says, any WWII related topics or Warbird topics relating to WWII are generally well subscribed.  Grin Wink

I think this, again, is a demonstration of the fact that, although Truckers figures and point may well be pertinent, there is still a very large contingent of members who are here because of their common initial interest in WWII and probably more specifically, the warbirds of the period.  Cheesy Wink

As Trucker points out, the post numbers in each specific catagory would indicate more 'topic activity' in the FS area. But I would say that, all those who are posting in the FS areas are also posting in the CFS areas and the General topics concerning WWII birds.  Grin Wink Of course, I've already mentioned that these WWII realted post seem to be better subscribed, more often.  Cheesy
 

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Reply #24 - Dec 26th, 2003 at 5:48pm

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I'm still not convinced it's necessary but would a History forum cover it? Wink
 

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Reply #25 - Dec 27th, 2003 at 5:23pm

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
I'm still not convinced it's necessary but would a History forum cover it? Wink


It's amazing, Hagar. That's the very thing I was thinking of yesterday at work (the Net was down, so I had 12 hrs at work when I could have been posting all day, and the mongrel thing wasn't working Angry).

Anyway, yes, I think a History Forum would certainly cover it. There is still a slight danger of discussion heading towards and ending up in areas like 'the Gulf War', 'Afghanistan' (war against terrorism - not the Russian one) and 'Iraq' etc. But I don't think the risk is any greater than that posed in the General or Cafe Forums.  Grin Wink

In fact, now that I think of it, people generally tend to think of 'History' as events prior to at least, their lifetime (just a generalisation on my part). For instance, I don't see the '70's as 'History Proper' in my mind.
Bearing this in mind, I think there would be a tendency for people to keep posts in a 'History' Forum limited to events well before the more recent 'controversial' conflicts (except maybe Vietnam, which in itself is not that much of a volatile area these days. At least not here).  Cheesy

Yep, I think a History Forum would be a reasonable compromise, and just personally, it would suit me anyway, as I am a bit of a 'History Buff' (in areas other than WWII also).

Also, I can see it possibly becoming an area in which the younger chaps (at school or college), could gain some advice and insight into any 'History' related assignments or projects to do with their studies.  8)

So, what say people (and Pete)? Is this a reasonable compromise. Enough at least for a trial to gauge the level of interest? ???

Steve


 

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Reply #26 - Dec 27th, 2003 at 6:53pm

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I too would like a "History" forum that would cover all the bases, with the threads to be kept strictly on topic.  As we all know, it's hard enough to place a start, let alone an end, to an event...



 

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Reply #27 - Dec 28th, 2003 at 12:38am

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I wouldn't mind a "History" forum...it can be kinda fun to has out the "real reasons" why something happened. Smiley

The first discussion could be:

"What is the most significant period in Aviation History...and why?"
 

My vote would be the Golden Age...the dawn of air commerce, the transition from fabric bipes to metal-clad monoplanes, Schneider Cup Races, Turner Cup, Cleveland... Smiley
 

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Reply #28 - Dec 28th, 2003 at 1:56am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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It would seem that Silver has just started without us............. Grin Grin Grin Grin Wink
 

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Reply #29 - Dec 28th, 2003 at 12:19pm

pete   Offline
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Well - persistence has paid off Wink - too many votes to ignore!

You guys have your history forum ...& Hagar don't complain any more about 'too many forums already' when you have been key to this new one with your solution of calling it 'history'   Cheesy  Wink

 

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Reply #30 - Dec 28th, 2003 at 12:24pm

Hagar   Offline
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LOL Pete. A History forum it is with no complaints from me. Cheesy

You could make a little room by losing the FAQ forums we discussed some time ago. I realise that moving what topics are in them might be a tad difficult.

Thanks. Wink
 

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Reply #31 - Dec 29th, 2003 at 9:46am

Professor Brensec   Offline
Colonel
Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA

Gender: male
Posts: 2955
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Thank You...............all!!  Grin Wink

I now have somewhere to talk about WWII history, specifically, rather than bothering others in the General and cafe forums (which really are a bit too 'wide ranging' for something so specific).

Of course, you all know that it's REALLY a WWII forum 'disguised' as a History forum.........don't you??  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grinj/k  Wink
 

...&&...&&http://www.ra.online-plus.biz&&&&&&I cried because I had no shoes - until I saw a man who had no feet.&&&&Dell Dimension 8100 - Intel P4 1.7 Gb - 512 RD Ram - nVidia GeForce 128 mb FX5200.
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