..... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]...!

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-top-ten-worst-cars-pictures-new,0,2636913.photogallery

...or did you?.... :o... :o... :o...!

Paul...Motorcyclist... 8-)...!

Cannot really talk about American cars. Seen their average handling, here where I live, I'm glad I cannot buy them (and don't force me to talk about your cars in further posts, dear Americans. Trying strongly to be polite, here). ;)

About European cars I can say I'm glad I never had nor took a ride on a Morris Marina, seen that it has that nasty habit to get pianos dropped on it out of the blue. That is not a car, but a paranormal phenomena on wheels. ;D

Back in 77, when I was eight, my father took in for a prolonged test drive a NSU Prinz... a car I'd rather burn my driving license rather than own or get at the wheel of. Beside the fact that it had a mechanical reliability that could be expressed in imaginary numbers, it had probably a worse handling than even the infamous Chevrolet Corvair, because it managed to do a sudden and unprovoked 90° tail slide on a straight road once (and if you knew how my father has ALWAYS driven, even back then, you'd know that he has always thought a blasphemous thing to do willingly, that, even for fun on a secure and deserted track), barely managing not to kill my whole family putting itself astride a road that was mercifully empty of traffic at the time. :-X

The FIAT Ritmo (outside Italy known sometimes as Strada), because it was UGLY, was mechanically cobbled together with eggbeaters building leftovers, was prone to rust, and it had the electric reliability of a soaked sponge. :(

The FIAT Regata (name outside Italy may vary), a sedan version of the Ritmo, because it inherited the electrical and mechanical infidelity of the hatchback itself verbatim, to which, perhaps for a show of character, added a chassis so wobbly and fragile to be a public danger. :'(

The modern FIAT Multipla, because it has managed to be EVEN UGLIER than the Ritmo and I would rather walk naked from one end of of Baghdad to the other than been seen at the wheel of one of them. :o

The SIMCA 1000... a phone booth on its side, with wheels underneath, a squarish long chest on top and the engine in the back to give it unforgettable handling characteristics, perhaps as bad as the already spoken of Prinz, if not worse. I'd rather go barefoot in the snow for the rest of my life than ever see another of those, let alone drive or own one. :P

The FIAT Stilo, because I drove it once, it had a 16 valves two liters petrol engine and managed to be slower than death by starvation and as much as excruciating, its steering was numb, the gear was worse than a Ritmo's (quite the achievement, that, for a relatively modern car), had the agility of a snail with arthritis, the visibility of a WWI submarine and it was less comfortable than falling head first down a stairwell. >:(

...

...and that's it. They're not ten, merely seven. If I can think of another three, I'll add them later. :)

I actually test drove a Saturn Ion Redline edition, the supercharged racer model.  I thought it handled quite nicely and had good power, but the interior with the offset dash was off putting.  And as was typical of the Saturn's, due to their plastic dent resistant body panels, the body gaps were larger than most other cars.

I drove a 1970 Ford Pinto during my high school years. Bright yellow, it looked like a big lemon on wheels. But, hey, it was fun to drive. Its rack-and-pinion steering made cornering a breeze. And, as a student on a budget, I appreciated its high mileage. By 5 years its valves were starting to click-and-clack, and my dad got rid of it soon after I left home to join the Air Force.

My ex had a Chevy Vega. Nope, it couldn't hold oil. Rust took it quickly. Not near as nice as the Pinto. I think her foot once went through the floorboard before she got rid of it.

And I remember the first time I saw the Aztec while on a business trip to Chicago. It stopped me and my partners in our tracks with a "What the hell is that?" moment. We couldn't believe our eyes that it  looked like ... THAT! More positive proof that people who work at big corporations often do very, very stupid things, and get paid for it.  :D

ftldave wrote on Dec 1^st, 2012 at 11:17am:

More positive proof that people who work at big corporations often do very, very stupid things, and get paid for it.  :D

God in Heaven, ain't that the truth? Common people mess a thing in their living job for an honest to God mistake and get publicly humiliated and then have to pay fines, if aren't fired outright. SOBs like that mess EVERYTHING for EVERYONE and their dogs... and get praises and more money than before. And not only in the car industry.

Case in point... any of you heard what happened to those geniuses that thought out that pristine gem of coding called Flight? If M$ fired them I'd be beside myself, wondering from where the killer asteroid that'll wipe us all out will come and when. I'm ready to wager they had their salaries beefed up and maybe even advancements, instead.


PS
Forgot to add, in the other post, to the NSU Prinz's list of niceties this: We went with that car to rent a house for the summer vacation about 200KM (about 120 miles) south from Naples, and when we were about to start the return travel an engine mount gave out. There was no mechanic capable to repair THAT kind of car around there and we had to return home with the engine canted in such a way that only the first and second gear entered. I'm talking about 200Km (or 120 miles, take what you like best), at an average speed of 30Kmh (about 18mph).

And we were lucky it wasn't the other engine mount to give up the ghost... try and start in third gear a car with an engine of 0.6 liters with two adults and three children aboard that had to negotiate hilly roads as well in its travel and calculate how long the clutch would have survived. A veritable cesspit on wheels. ;D

Strategic Retreat wrote on Dec 1^st, 2012 at 10:27pm:

ftldave wrote on Dec 1st, 2012 at 11:17am: More positive proof that people who work at big corporations often do very, very stupid things, and get paid for it.  :D God in Heaven, ain't that the truth? Common people mess a thing in their living job for an honest to God mistake and get publicly humiliated and then have to pay fines, if aren't fired outright. SOBs like that mess EVERYTHING for EVERYONE and their dogs... and get praises and more money than before. And not only in the car industry. Case in point... any of you heard what happened to those geniuses that thought out that pristine gem of coding called Flight? If M$ fired them I'd be beside myself, wondering from where the killer asteroid that'll wipe us all out will come and when. I'm ready to wager they had their salaries beefed up and maybe even advancements, instead.

;D
I work at THEE smallest GA manufacturer and I can say safely that if I do anything stupid or make any mistake, everyone at work will know right away what it was and WHO did it  ::)
That tends to keep everyone very honest  ;)

I am really glad my '88 Prelude is not on this list. :D

One of my first jobs out of highschool
(late 1970s), was busting tires, and doing suspension/brake inspections at a Firestone service center. I was front-n-center as things like Pintos and Vegas were racking up some miles.. against the "new-comers", like Datsun 510s, and Toyota Corollas... it wasn't pretty.. handwriting on the walls .. if it were a prize fight, it woulda been called in the first round..

wahubna wrote on Dec 1^st, 2012 at 11:57pm:

I am really glad my '88 Prelude is not on this list. :D

The Honda Prelude? The version with the 80ies through first 90ies fashionable pop-up headlights? :-?

A little too much angular for my tastes, and the bonnet goes REALLY low at its business end (would not get a lot of points for pedestrian safety, nowadays... but who cares about pedestrians anyway  ;D), but not a bad design.

Mechanically... never had any first hand experience with any Honda, but they aren't really known to be disasters on wheels, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. ;)

Strategic Retreat wrote on Dec 9^th, 2012 at 6:35pm:

wahubna wrote on Dec 1st, 2012 at 11:57pm: I am really glad my '88 Prelude is not on this list. :D The Honda Prelude? The version with the 80ies through first 90ies fashionable pop-up headlights? :-? A little too much angular for my tastes, and the bonnet goes REALLY low at its business end (would not get a lot of points for pedestrian safety, nowadays... but who cares about pedestrians anyway  ;D), but not a bad design. Mechanically... never had any first hand experience with any Honda, but they aren't really known to be disasters on wheels, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. ;)

Why yes sir pop up headlights, pedestrian killing slope and all!  ;D

It is a pretty reliable car, albeit she is old and Michigan eats old cars alive. She wants to keep going, but at the rate she is rusting out, it might be only a couple of years before I have to let go of her. Only have ~129,000miles on it too  8-)
Yes I could have body work done, but it is too much $ for me.
Hondas are great but they come with "Honda Rust". For some reason that car manufacturer cannot understand making a climate tolerant vehicle  ::)

She does not look the greatest yes. I describe it as a sport's cars retarded sister  ;D

Yeah, I know the feeling. :-/

Had a BWM 318i year 1984 (one of the first of the second model of the 3 series) up until April 2010. Body in great shape up to the last, though I had to have it repainted about ten years ago since its paint was... not really one solid hue anymore at the times and quite ugly to look at, and very little rust... less than many other cars with half its life, actually. Problematic in the last two years of its life had been the engine that had gone through hell and back, with its WAY more than 220.000Km (136.000 miles) of my not really relaxed driving style. :-[

That April was so soggy and rainy that it wanted to beat London's best, with the great total number of 4 days of days when rain did not fall in the whole month... and the humidity gave the last strike the old warrior into the bonnet of that great car within which I've traveled a good part of Europe ever since 1989 (the year I bought it second hand). It had been a while that it burned more lubricant oil than petrol and when the weather was humid at the start it went on three cylinders before warming up... but a morning of that April the old comrade's heart just gave up, at best working for a little while on two sole cylinders. :(

Since they asked me 1 grand ONLY TO DISMOUNT THE ENGINE FROM ITS MOUNTS, and then all the repairs were to be added to that sum... plus ANOTHER GRAND to remount the engine back into the car... I literally showed them the two finger salute (that here in Italy almost no one understands its a boost of the one finger salute) and, since the previous November already it gave me problems to the fuel pump, that left me in the middle of the road and had to be replaced (and was not a cheap piece either... 220€ of pump plus mounting and taxes), unwillingly took the suffered decision to bring the old four wheeled friend to its last resting place. >:(

Now I'm driving a FIAT Punto Multijet year 2003. One of the first with the 75bhp 16 valves turbo intercooler multijet 1.3 liters diesel engine... and I must say, even if it doesn't completely measure up to the old warrior I had to inhume that cursed April, it's quite the nice step up for FIAT. I was SO used to the trashy cars of this brand from the 90ies that almost had a heart attack in finding they made quite the good car with this one. Quite sprinty in spite of being a diesel, with a not quite as direct as I would have liked electric servo assisted driving wheel (that is worlds better than the Stilo's I drove some years ago, though, and makes it further up being quite precise as well), a still not perfect but quite better than the old FIATs gearbox, and keeping the turbo in while driving, since the car is lighter, it doesn't make me miss too much the old BMW.

...it has the blessed to have in summer air conditioning, that the old car didn't have... and anti lock brakes too... and other electric gizmos the old car wasn't equipped with... but I still cry the old comrade of thousand battles and roads past, sometimes. :'(

BMW cant build cars anymore? My saab has 210.000 km and still drives like new

And about that diesel engine... try to find a car in europe that does NOT have a Fiat built diesel...

Ivan wrote on Feb 9^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

BMW cant build cars anymore? My saab has 210.000 km and still drives like new And about that diesel engine... try to find a car in europe that does NOT have a Fiat built diesel...

I exchanged my BMW E39 525d it was 9 years old and had 340,000 km on the clock. It drove like the first day I picked it up. And I swapped it for........BMW E61 530d.........

As for Fiat, I am pretty sure that Mercedes diesels, Citroen, VW, Audi and of course BMW are all home grown...
http://www.toomanycars.info/CarRelationship/Car_Rel-Image2.html

Matt

Ivan wrote on Feb 9^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

BMW cant build cars anymore? My saab has 210.000 km and still drives like new

If you knew my driving style, you'd knew that 220.000Km are QUITE the achievement. Believe my word. ;)



Ivan wrote on Feb 9^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

And about that diesel engine... try to find a car in Europe that does NOT have a Fiat built diesel...

I'll tell you a edifying story. In the last 70ies first 80ies, it was Peugeot that had the best diesel engines in Europe, and since here in Italy fuel has always been MAXXXXY taxed (a HONEST government could run the state WHOLE with only the taxes we pay on fuel here, enough said), in those years more and more people began putting their preconceptions about diesel behind them, since diesel fuel back then cost something like A HALF the price of common petrol per liter (nowadays it's merely 10 cents cheaper per liter).

And back in those days FIAT was NOT good in making diesel engines. And they KNEW it.

So the boss at FIAT polled the government, lead by Bettino Craxi (may the rotten bastard roast in the Eternal Hell until a Hell will exist) for a solution. Said boss wanted people to continue buying HIS dupe cars, and not give Peugeot the money that, by what he thought were the Word of the Lord Himself, should have gone to HIM (and then some people in forum like this gets mad at me when I say that there has never been a honest rich man and never will be... try and walk a goddamn mile in my shoes, would you?). And those so nice and honest BASTARDS in the government, to please their usually bribe-generous friend, in 1986 put a HYPER-EXTRA-SUPER-DUPER-OVER-MAXY-road tax on diesel cars adducing the excuse that diesel engines were EXTREMELY more polluting than petrol engines.

In the years when the common petrol had LEAD in it. Can you imagine a more bare-faced, cheeky, underhanded, immoral, shameless, slimy, LOW lie?

Italian politicians' honesty at its finest.

It was a BAD tax. If you had a two liters diesel car you ended up paying OVER two million old Lire per year, and some cars weren't worth even half that price TOTAL. The only ones that bought diesel cars in those years here in Italy were those who had a lot to travel to do, like traveling salesmen and the like. A HELL of a lot to travel, like 100.000Km per year or more.

Ten years after that pristine like their souls token of friendship to their rich and generous friend in FIAT had been delivered, when FIAT had recovered the technical gap, the tax was rescinded, since by then they WANTED to sell diesel cars, and nowadays they have reached quite the technological peak.

So yes, you, and I, are using engines that were born out of a LIE and the speculations of soulless BASTARDS on common people. Can do nothing about it now, but AT THE VERY LEAST do not turn any kind of blind eyes on it. >:(