Hello, Since Microsoft added the Piper cub in the default st of planes, I try to take off with it, but never succeeded. Is there a pilot good enough to tak off with that plane that could explain how to proceed ? I have tried with various joystick (in case it would be a technicla issue), I tried to slowly increase gz or very fast, but every time the plane take a lillt bit of speed and turn to the left and even trun up side down (this of course result in a crash). Is there a "special " procedure for to succeed in such take off ? I have absolutely no problem to use any other planes, only the Piper is forbidden to me. So if someone can help...

use rudder to counter the torque of the engine, push the stick forward a bit, let the plane get some speed, then pull a bit to lift it off the ground. make sure there's not too much crosswind as it is a very light plane. it isn't very diffucult, just try to keep it on the rwy and you should be fine ;)

The trick with any tail-dragger is to increase the throttle gently and use rudder to compensate ;)
Keep pushing the stick forward (gently) from about 30 knts till the nose goes down, then open the throttle and after about 55 knts pull back and up she goes ;)

ozzy72 wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2012 at 6:11pm:

The trick with any tail-dragger is to increase the throttle gently and use rudder to compensate ;) Keep pushing the stick forward (gently) from about 30 knts till the nose goes down, then open the throttle and after about 55 knts pull back and up she goes ;)

^^^^^^^

The default planes are very touchy though, so as Ozzy said, BE GENTLE and it will work out just fine....soon you will be doing 1 wheel taxing and landings, hammerheads, and rolls in the Cub like some of us  ::)
Here is Kyle Franklin's "Drunk pilot" Super Cub routine for inspiration  ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F70tClnEKQI

Hello to all of you whom answered to my question. Just to introduce myself, I have been playing with Microsoft Flight simulator for the last 30 years, the first time I view that software was back in 1980 (VGA 16 colors ! you could only fly around Chicago and a few other places in USA) and it caught me for ever (not sure on how to write this past form, hope I am right , I am a french guy). Anyway, thank for you recommendation ,this Piper is the only plane that ever took me stuck on the ground !

Regards,

Hi jeff55,

ah the good old Sublogic days, remember them with a little sadness but thats a long story.

There's not just the torque effect, whilst the tail is on the grand the angle of attack of the airflow to the propellor is different on one side to the other, you basically have more thrust on the downward swing of the prop to the upward swing causing a turn to the opposite side, in most tail draggers with single props this will be to the left.

If the swing to the left is not caught and stopped quick enough, a ground loop results.

I now feel truly ancient. I've been simming since 8-bit, Flight Simulator on the ZX Spectrum 48k, loaded from tape, wire-frame graphics with only two colours ;D ;D ;D

ozzy72 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 10:49am:

I now feel truly ancient. I've been simming since 8-bit, Flight Simulator on the ZX Spectrum 48k, loaded from tape, wire-frame graphics with only two colours ;D ;D ;D

Only two colours?... ;)...!

You are forgetting....
Bright 0/1
Flash 0/1

Paul...Sinclair Spectrum 48k.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]...!

..the King is dead...Long live the King!..... [smiley=evil.gif]...!

we digress but, Ozzy you feel old?

I remember the zx81 flight sim, 2 dashed lines for runway edge and a solid square in a box for ils - luxury
:)

or f15 from digital integration on the speccy and atari, couldn't see the mountains but you could hit em!.

Lets have another thread on this, us oldies and what we used and what we thought was best.

For me it was the engine spooling up sound effects on airbus (airbus US as well) for the amiga.

For me it's my dads fault, I have pictures of him laid out on the wings of jet fighters in Cyprus in the 50's, not that I wanted to sunbath, I wanted to fly.

EVVFCX wrote on Nov 4^th, 2012 at 7:28pm:

Lets have another thread on this, us oldies and what we used and what we thought was best. For me it was the engine spooling up sound effects on airbus (airbus US as well) for the amiga. For me it's my dads fault, I have pictures of him laid out on the wings of jet fighters in Cyprus in the 50's, not that I wanted to sunbath, I wanted to fly.

For me it has always been the realism of the experience. Not that I was all that great, in fact I learned to learn only with F-117 Stealth Fighter under Amiga... my landings before that game only produced smoking craters. ;D

Once learned to land under that game, there it came FS... the version I do not remember, but it had to be the 3 or maybe the 4... the only thing I remember of that FS (that was "given" to me as a "gift" by the one putting together the 386 33Mhz it worked upon... don't look at me like that, it was legal back then in Italy) is that it had only the US and the ILS screen aid sky floating red squares were ALWAY on, for ALL airports.

Then it came a looooooooong time away from flight simulation as a whole (Real Life demanded total attention from me in the maybe richer than today, yet for a lot of familial and personal reasons accursed second half of the 90ies) and beside small reprieves with the little used Strike Commander, Falcon 3 and FS98, I restarted full blast only with FS2002.

And it was my dad's fault too. in the 70ies we didn't have a lot of money, so when we asked him to bring us to the amusement park, to avoid having to pay for some rides he instead brought us all on the 06 of LIRN, where once upon a time it was possible to stay and look at planes landing and taking off without having the military police fall upon you in full combat gear in less than five minutes like today and command you to get lost or else... :P

It was then, looking at those mostly DC9, 727 and 737 that it really started for me. :)

jeff55 wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2012 at 4:18pm:

Hello to all of you whom answered to my question. Just to introduce myself, I have been playing with Microsoft Flight simulator for the last 30 years, the first time I view that software was back in 1980 (VGA 16 colors ! you could only fly around Chicago and a few other places in USA) and it caught me for ever (not sure on how to write this past form, hope I am right , I am a french guy). Anyway, thank for you recommendation ,this Piper is the only plane that ever took me stuck on the ground ! Regards,

Well Jeff as you can see we here on the SimV servers are rather easily distracted  ;D
But bare with us, we have a good crowd here.

Talk to Fozzer and/or check out the multiplayer section about using the SimV server, sometime I will be more than happy to do some Piper Cub flying with you  ;)
By the way, who needs that pesky wheel up front anyways?  :D

wahubna wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 8:56am:

jeff55 wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 4:18pm: Hello to all of you whom answered to my question. Just to introduce myself, I have been playing with Microsoft Flight simulator for the last 30 years, the first time I view that software was back in 1980 (VGA 16 colors ! you could only fly around Chicago and a few other places in USA) and it caught me for ever (not sure on how to write this past form, hope I am right , I am a french guy). Anyway, thank for you recommendation ,this Piper is the only plane that ever took me stuck on the ground ! Regards, Well Jeff as you can see we here on the SimV servers are rather easily distracted  ;D But bare with us, we have a good crowd here. Talk to Fozzer and/or check out the multiplayer section about using the SimV server, sometime I will be more than happy to do some Piper Cub flying with you  ;) By the way, who needs that pesky wheel up front anyways?  :D

What do you mean, Adam?... :o...!

That dinky little wheel up at the pointy end, means that I can see exactly where I am going, on the ground...
Without it, goodness knows how much damage I could do to anything standing in my way!... :-[...!

Paul..I love Tricycles... ;D... ;D...!

Fozzer wrote on Nov 5^th, 2012 at 1:19pm:

wahubna wrote on Nov 5th, 2012 at 8:56am: jeff55 wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 4:18pm: Hello to all of you whom answered to my question. Just to introduce myself, I have been playing with Microsoft Flight simulator for the last 30 years, the first time I view that software was back in 1980 (VGA 16 colors ! you could only fly around Chicago and a few other places in USA) and it caught me for ever (not sure on how to write this past form, hope I am right , I am a french guy). Anyway, thank for you recommendation ,this Piper is the only plane that ever took me stuck on the ground ! Regards, Well Jeff as you can see we here on the SimV servers are rather easily distracted  ;D But bare with us, we have a good crowd here. Talk to Fozzer and/or check out the multiplayer section about using the SimV server, sometime I will be more than happy to do some Piper Cub flying with you  ;) By the way, who needs that pesky wheel up front anyways?  :D What do you mean, Adam?... :o...! That dinky little wheel up at the pointy end, means that I can see exactly where I am going, on the ground... Without it, goodness knows how much damage I could do to anything standing in my way!... :-[...! Paul..I love Tricycles... ;D... ;D...!

Got to keep you on your toes there Paul  ;)
What is life without challenges? After all us guys seem drawn to women and we all know how challenging they can be  ::) (speaking of my wife  ;D )

If I can handle her, I can handle a tail wheel  ;D

jeff55

I have the same problem with the Cub and am anxious to know about your progress getting the plane off the ground! TIA!

Have a similar problem with the Spirit of St. Louis in the Lindberg Atlantic flight file.

I still only fly FS9, so my opinion may not count for much.
But... having flown the real thing, I can say the first problem is yaw. A Cub has issues with this, by design, when applying full power while moving slowly on the ground, and for whatever reason, the default Cubs exaggerate this. Controller calibration is very critical, because of this.
So the best approach is to first make sure whatever controller you are using is adjusted so you can confirm, visually in an exterior view, that the rudder is centered when you center it with the controller. This is of vital importance.
Then make sure the "auto-rudder" function is disabled... useless for the default FS9 Cub, anyway. You'll never learn how to do it with autorudder. Also, stay off the brakes. They are for parking only, most of the time.
Start with calm winds, as in no wind. Advance the throttle slooowllllyyyy, and keep the rudder moving. As you go faster, think about how you need to apply opposite rudder a little before you want to move the tail, to stop it swinging just when you want it to. You need to pay attention to where it's going, and stay ahead of it.
When the tail comes up, it's now all rudder and no tailwheel, and the yaw response changes. The Cub rudder, in FS as well as RL, is very effective. Keep the nose down, keep it on the centerline, and let the speed build up.
In a crosswind, start the roll with full aileron correction, and don't worry if you have a wing low into the wind as the tail comes up- that's a good thing. Tail up is not flying, and your directional control at that moment is shifting from tailwheel to rudder.
In general, you have to always remember: aileron for drift, rudder for centering.

....^^^^^.... ::)... ;)...

Now you can see why I love my little (nose-wheely!) Cessna 150/152 "Trainesr"!..... [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif].....!

It does exactly what it says on the Fuselage!... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]...!

Tail-draggers have a mind all of their own!...(Ground Loops, etc).... :o...!

It takes a lot of training and practice, to safely control a small General Aviation tail-dragger aircraft.
Noting the wind direction is all important for ground manoeuvring, and take-off + landing !

Paul....FS 2004... [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]...!

Fozzer wrote on Nov 9^th, 2012 at 5:38am:

Tail-draggers have a mind all of their own!...(Ground Loops, etc).... :o...!

Only if you are a raw beginner with no idea of what you're doing. :P



Fozzer wrote on Nov 9^th, 2012 at 5:38am:

It takes a lot of training and practice, to safely control a small General Aviation tail-dragger aircraft.

Maybe in Real Life. Under FS not really. Before I understood the mechanics of it, I could only loop all the way to ever-circular hell or go straight into a word of hurt with the Cub and other similar planes... but once I read a sadly forgotten really well written page on the net about WHAT to do and WHY... I got better.

Not suddenly perfect, this I grant you, but I was able to make something else than disasters or donuts almost immediately, and in a half a hour of practice I could taxi the Cub with relative precision, if not ease.

Easy is not the way of the Force... nor the way of the Taildraggers either, and yes, the nosewheel-ed planes are by far easier, but there's a deep sense of satisfaction in being able to make a castor wheel taildragger do exactly what you want, and not what it whishes. A satisfaction only those who CAN DO it, can understand. ;)

.... ;D....!

One of the few benefits I have found with tail-draggers, is that they can mostly take off and land on remote, rough surfaces, which would most likely cause the nose-wheel to be damaged, or snap-off, damaging the propeller, and shock-loading the engine, on a tricycle aircraft...

...beware Gopher/Rabbit holes!... :o...!

...but ground manoeuvring a small, light, tail-dragger, in gusty, windy, conditions, is a work of art!....and a bum-clencher!*... ;D...!

"On a wing and a prayer"....The "prayer" bit applies to tail-draggers... ;)... ;D...!

Paul... 8-)...!

* ....a bit like high-speed cornering on my motor bike!... :o...!

Piper Cub:...Book of Rules...>>> http://www.sportpilot.org/learntofly/articles/070917_learning.html
Motorcycles: How to become a Man....>>> http://artofmanliness.com/2011/06/02/learning-to-ride-your-first-motorcycle/

Hello All,

I am back to tell you that I could finally make some kind of "safe" take off with the piper cub, but honestly could not stay in line with the Runway. In my previous attempts to take off with that bird, I expected a take off speed above 60 or 70 Knots. Weel it seems that it is the cruise speed. This may explain my problem to fly with it. My "victorious " take off happened at a little 45 or 47 knots and the roll on back was not far anyway.


Thank to all of you for your precious recommendation.

Jeff.

Oh dear... ;D ...the Cub is quite the kite. A take off between 60 or 70 is DC3 territory. Just another kind of taildragger. ;)

Just take a look at my attempts A2A Simulations Piper cub ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWAnu9b1gSA&feature=plcp

Nice job !

Will try to do reproduce such clean take-off. Hum, it may require sometime !

Couldn't believe that a takeoff in a real Piper J3 Cub could possibly be as difficult as the one in FS9. Checked with a pilot who has J3 Cub time and he said, "If they were that tough, the weeds alongside the runway would have been littered with them still."

With that in mind I did some experimenting. First I went to the 'Aircraft, Realism' tab. My 'Flight model' settings are all sliders to 'Realistic.'

Setting the Torque and P-factor sliders to approximately 20% made a successful takeoff with the J3 Cub much easier and more certain.

Then I tried changing the 'aircraft.cfg' file in the 'Piper_J3Cub' folder as follows:

On the following lines, change the value from =0.3 to =0.05 on both lines. This is a good starting point and you can adjust up or down from here.

p_factor_on_yaw          = 0.3
torque_on_roll           = 0.3

so they look like this:

p_factor_on_yaw          = 0.05
torque_on_roll           = 0.05

Save, then close the file.

This gives you a Cub with flight characteristics closer to the real thing IMHO and you can leave your  'Flight model' tab 'Torque and P-factor' sliders at your usual settings.