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Real World >> History >> The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 /yabb?num=1133336239 Message started by JRoc on Nov 30th, 2005 at 2:37am |
Title: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by JRoc on Nov 30th, 2005 at 2:37am
Just took up some more research on my mum's uncle, F/O Alexander J Salaba, RCAF.
Turned up a wealth of information. Aircraft designation and serial, down to the pilot that shot them down. I'm quite proud to know that he was part the elite Pathfinders. Quote:
I only have the above three positions (in parenthesis), as those are the only ones I have verification of. RAF Bomber Command lost a total of 27 aircraft (including 10 Pathfinders) on the 2/3 raid, and 28 the previous night. The Luftwaffe pilot, Lt Potthast, was later KIA on March 22, 1944 with a total of 11 air victories, 10 of which were night victories. |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by SilverFox441 on Nov 30th, 2005 at 3:20am
WOW!
Nice to be able to trace something in the family tree like this, you should be proud. As an aside, F/S W.L.J. Clark RCAF was probably the copilot. The remainder of the crew are listed simply as Sergeant, so the one Flight Sergeant would seem to be a sure thing for the one flight crew position not known. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the RAF crew members were all gunners assigned to fill out an RCAF crew, which would make Sgt. Zimmer the Bombadier. |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Hagar on Nov 30th, 2005 at 4:04am
Very interesting story. I'm pleased that you were able to trace him. This would have been of some comfort to his immediate family. It will never be known what happened to many of those crews. I met an elderly lady at an air display a couple of years ago wearing numerous badges of the Lancaster. As she obviously had an affection for the aircraft I asked her about them. It turned out that her late husband had been a radio operator on the Lanc during WWII. He was listed as "Missing presumed killed" while on a secret mission two weeks before the war ended. She never found out what happened to him until 50 years later when secret documents were declassified. She married again after some years & her present husband investigated all this for her & she was finally able to visit his grave in Germany. It was a very touching story. She told me that she follows the BBMF Lanc wherever it goes & also knows the crew.
Quote:
It's not always easy to find this out as things are not always as they might appear. RAF Bomber Command pilots were usually allowed to pick their own crews where possible but this was more often a matter of chance as they would have been complete strangers & the choice would be limited to who was available. It might have been different for the RCAF crews but not all RAF pilots were officers & I've read about more than one Sergeant Pilot with an officer tailgunner. |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Charlie.. on Nov 30th, 2005 at 6:04am wrote on Nov 30th, 2005 at 3:20am:
RAF bombers in WWII did not usually have the luxury of a co-pilot, although occasionally new pilots would go up as "second pilot" for experience. In fact the later heavy bombers (Stirling, Halifax, Lancaster) only had the one set of controls. The crew would have been made up of: Pilot Navigator Bomb Aimer (we didn't call them bombardiers) Flight Engineer Wireless Operator, Top Turret Gunner Rear Turret Gunner The exception to this also occured later in the war when some of the smaller Pathfinder sqns would fly with a more experienced pilot (often from the Mosquito force) for the bomb run itself. Quote:
I imagine it was a mix of a matter of choice and those who happen to enter the OTUs (Operational Training Unit) at the same time as crews were initially formed at the OTU. |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Hagar on Nov 30th, 2005 at 8:07am wrote on Nov 30th, 2005 at 6:04am:
Quite right Charlie although I understand that one of the crew members could often take over the controls in an emergency, for example; if the pilot was seriously injured or killed. This would involve physically moving him from the seat & taking his place. I found this article on a similar incident which gives the crew positions in the Lancaster. http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/ Although this was the radial-engined Mk II I imagine this was the same on all Lancs. Quote:
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Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Charlie.. on Nov 30th, 2005 at 8:09am wrote on Nov 30th, 2005 at 8:07am:
Indeed, I imagine it was normally the flight engineer, considering his technical expertise and the fact he was sat next to the pilot 90% of the time. |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Hagar on Nov 30th, 2005 at 8:19am
Also note that the pilot (captain) & rear gunner of the Lanc from my link were both Pilot Officers.
Pilot: Pilot Officer Allan Stanley FRAMPTON RNZAF. http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/Frampton.htm Rear gunner: Pilot Officer Charles Hugh WINTERS RCAF. http://www.need-family.demon.co.uk/Winters.htm |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Charlie.. on Nov 30th, 2005 at 8:27am wrote on Nov 30th, 2005 at 8:19am:
Indeed. A suprisingly high number of air gunners were Officers. I'm faily sure they may have been several all Officer crews in Bomber Command. |
Title: Re: The fateful night of January 2nd, 1944 Post by Carduelis on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 7:56am JRoc wrote on Nov 30th, 2005 at 2:37am:
I have some information about Lancaster JB280, have metaldetected the area and found small pieces (alu). Know extact spot of crash. Dutch reports - Pilot logbook and so on. I have contact with the son of Watts (this year he will visit Schoonebeek again). |
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